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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People cycling as fast as they can wear helmets, this is usually seen at the weekends when a few people swap their city bike for a racing bike and ride round the countryside. Motorists who enjoy racing also wear helmets when speeding round the race track, but don't wear them on the commute. No doubt deaths around be prevented if car occupants wore helmets, but it's not considered risky, just like routing cycling.

I have often wondered why we don't wear helmets while in a car. It seems like it would be a positive to safety.

So would 5-point harnesses, but almost no one has those installed in their car.

Safety is usually about going after the lowest-hanging fruit: making improvements that have the biggest net benefit. In cycling, head injuries are common because of how the rider is exposed and how they frequently fall and what kind of surfaces they're likely to impact. In car driving, not so much; the biggest benefit in car driving is to keep the body anchored to the seat so that it doesn't fly into the dashboard or steering wheel or anything else, so that's why we wear seat belts. There's still problems with body parts hitting parts of the car, so then we added airbags. There's still problems with getting whiplash, so now we have seats and headrests designed to minimize whiplash injuries. It just isn't often that you hear about someone getting a head injury in a car wreck in a modern car; I can't think of ever hearing of such a thing in fact.

Also, the speeds people reach on city streets aren't as high as what race cars reach, and in most auto racing, helmets are indeed required. However, the helmets used in auto racing (full head-covering types) also negatively affect visibility, which is very important in city driving, and not that important in racing where the conditions are far more controlled and you don't have to worry about random pedestrians or bad drivers all around you.

It's not like we don't have safety devices in cars; we do, and in fact we have many of them and they tend to be rather expensive and highly-engineered. 3-point seat belts with pre-tensioners, multiple airbags (front, canopy, A-pillar, seat side), anti-whiplash head restraints and seat mountings, etc. They also tend to be passive in nature: only seat belts require you to do anything to make use of them, the others are just waiting there until they're needed. As a society we've put a lot of money and effort into reducing deaths and injuries in cars, and it's paid off well. We could go further with helmets and 5-point harnesses, but how much benefit would there be, and how many people would refuse to use them? (BTW, there's an argument against 5-point harnesses, that they shouldn't be used unless a car has a roll cage otherwise your head can get crushed in a rollover, whereas with a 3-point harness your torso just moves to the side towards the center if the roof caves in.) Oh yeah, don't forget what we do with kids these days: they have fairly elaborate child seats they're required to sit in, which they really are anchored into.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#602
post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would certainly not get stolen.

I've been doing this in Austin for years. And not just a helmet: * $40 pump attached to the seat tube. * $20 helmet on the handlebars * $20 biking gloves in the helmet * $80 biking jersey on the handlebars * $20 bike light * $?? seat pouch, with bike tools. I've had the bike light stolen twice (both in January this year), and the jersey vanished once, but I think it blew away. No one's ever taken my helmet, which has…

My girlfriend in college had her bike stolen. This was in a college town (in the US), so bike theft was not uncommon there. She had her helmet attached to the bike, or sitting on it, not sure which. The bike thief took the helmet off and threw it aside before grabbing the bike.

Stolen bikes can be resold. But who wants to buy a stolen bike helmet??

Most people don't really want to buy used items which are personal in nature. While a bike helmet isn't underwear, it's still in contact with your head and your hair, while you're sweating a lot, and probably never gets cleaned. I imagine that for the same reasons, no one would want to steal your jersey or gloves. I'm more surprised that your pump and tools never got stolen, but there again it probably has to do with the black market realities: people will buy stolen bikes, but how many people are looking to save money by buying a stolen tire pump?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. Both in major cities and out in the suburbs, bicycles are everywhere. I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Large cities in Germany or the UK or anywhere else I've seen cannot compare to the magnitude of people on bicycles in The Netherlands.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

> I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

Weeelll ... not use a bike any more?? How are you going to get around then? :) :)

Indeed most would refuse and not do it, and if largely enforced, many would still refuse and not do it. ... but give up our bikes? Never! :)

They'll never enforce it though. Too many bikes. Take mandatory working front and back lights. I don't know about all cities of course, but where I live, they only enforce that a few weeks per year, at only a few same spots every year. Any other time, anywhere else, you can drive past a police car with no lights and they won't stop you (because they are there with something better to do). And this is for a bike law that pretty much everyone agrees is useful and important for safety (it's just that those damn lights break so quickly).

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#604
post #375
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wear a helmet for bicycling, in-line skating, snowboarding and whitewater kayaking. In the case of the first three sports, the helmet has saved me from nasty head hits: - Two over-the-handlebars crashes on my bike at relatively low speed (one when mountain biking). - A low tree limb and several backwards falls when inline skating. - Countless backwards falls when learning to snowboard. For whitewater kayaking, a he…

Do you wear a helmet when going for a run? What about going for a walk? Most Dutch riders are cycling slower than a running pace. I noticed that you categorized bicycling as a sport. For most Dutch people, bicycling is not a sport but a form of transportation. Commuting by car is a form of transportation, just like Formula 1 is a sport form which uses cars. The safety requirements are quite different between those tw…

> Most Dutch riders are cycling slower than a running pace.

Just to confirm, this is absolutely true. When running, I overtake bicyclists all the time. Especially uphill :) (by which I mean traffic overpass, not actual hills of course :p)

Personally I go a bit faster on my bike, but not much. 15 km/h (9.3mph) usually, and if I go much faster than that, I find that it does indeed get a lot more dangerous! Amazing, right? So, I don't do that. Just another clever Dutch workaround, I guess :-P

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Good or bad; I am Dutch and I would confidently say that all people I know would never ride a bike again if they have to wear those silly helmets. More likely if it would be mandatory, they just would refuse and not do it, but if largely enforced they would just not use bikes anymore.

Your use of the pejorative "silly" is indeed indicative of why Dutch people wouldn't use them. They might be silly for low speed commute cycling, but labeling the helmets silly in and of themselves is, uh, silly. Perhaps you should have said Dutch people would view wearing the helmets for bike commuting to be silly.

But, to make up for it, we also consider driving a racing bike in city traffic at speeds over 15 km/h silly (although the outfit doesn't help either). And we look before we open the car door, because there's bikes everywhere. I guess that evens it out a little :)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#606
post #298
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already locking your bike, you can loop the lock through one of your helmet straps (I do and have never had a helmet stolen, except when the whole bike was).

You can trivially undo helmet straps, because it needs to be adjusted it's not one solid piece of webbing. It stops someone from just picking your helmet up and walking away with it, but it takes no more than half a minute to undo the strap, so it's not going to stop someone intent on stealing it.

Why would anyone want to do this?

Answer me this: if you needed or wanted a bike helmet, would you buy a used one to save money? Especially if it's never been cleaned? (Those foam pads inside don't seem to be conducive to cleaning.) What kind of person would steal a helmet?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#607
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The amount of bicycles in The Netherlands is absolutely surreal. [...] I also find it interesting the Dutch rarely ever wear helmets. Perspective, perspective. The amount of bicycles in Germany (which is next-door) is surreal to me (so few) and I find it interesting that people wear helmets. They're such a bother and don't help your scraped arm or broken teeth if you land wrong. The odds of hitting your head on a c…

In New York City, sometimes the only way to bike safely is to attempt to match the speed of the traffic, which despite road congestion will still be well over 10 MPH. At that speed, if you hit a pothole or get doored, or get hit by a car, you are going to go down very hard. I've crashed exactly 3 times on my bike in New York City, and every time I would've cracked my head open if I didn't have a helmet.

> sometimes the only way to bike safely is to attempt to match the speed of the traffic

Can someone cite a study on this claim? I ride my bike every day and never ever see the need to match traffic, unless it happens to be going slower than me. If it's going faster ... I pick another route. I just don't think biking is safe in the city at say >17mph.

Going slow (and carefully selecting routes that allow you to do so -- the avenues in manhattan are a deathtrap btw) is the single most important factor in bike safety IMO.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#608
post #168
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other risks though - I always found it odd that motorised scooters are allowed on the bike paths. My Dutch neighbour had a very bad accident when one hit him on his bike and was off work for quite some time.

This is not the case anymore since ~5 years. The only motorized vehicels alllowed are those that cant travel fasher than 25km/h (bike speed)

Isn't that the "yellow plate/red plate" thing? I've heard that many get the governor installed, get the plate, remove the governor. I saw lots of scooters going too fast, passing folks in bike lanes in Amsterdam.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark. The percentage of people here wearing helmets seems to be dropping again after having been on the rise for the past few years (based on my anecdotal evidence of biking around copenhagen), but it's still relatively rare. I know at least 3 people who had simple accidents while not wearing helmets and while they did not die they suffered severe concussions that take years to fully recover from (if ever). One…

Do bike helmets protect against concussions?

I fell onto my bike helmet, on pavement, splitting it in half. I can tell you from personal experience that helmets definitely protect against concussion.
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