Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#61

Post by peteretep » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:40 AM UTC

tome wrote: post #47

andy_ppp wrote: post #41

One important thing to note is that your accountant gets a kickback from setting up a bank account. You should instead aim to search for the best bank account you can find with the best deal and the faster payments service; my bank account with Cater Allen still does not support this for example. I'd also highly highly recommend freeagent which is so good it makes you wonder what your accountant does. It has been rig…

Freeagent looks interesting. What's their customer support like? My accountant is about 90 GBP per month but I get extremely prompt responses from them on technical issues so I'm inclined to think they're worth it.

My accountant is the same, and gives me a discounted version of FreeAgent. These days I have considerably more complicated needs than I used to doing simply contracting, but I'd probably still use FA + the accountant anyway. I pair it with ReceiptBank, with which there is an acceptable (but not great) integration.

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#62

Post by peteretep » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

colinramsay wrote: post #45

peteretep wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience (and that of many coworkers I've had) - unless you've really pissed in the pool, there is an unending supply of good contracts in London.

Perhaps true but: - Are any remote? I mean who wants to live in London? ;) - How do you find them in the first place?

    > - Are any remote? I mean who wants to live in London? ;)

Generally not. One of my current clients allows their normal contractors to do 50% working from home.

    > - How do you find them in the first place?

Recruiters and IRC

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#63

Post by nikon » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:43 AM UTC

I think regardless of the tax benefits discussed in this thread, even with an equal playing field you will earn significantly more than your permie peers.

You can get 50k if you're lucky in London, but you can earn 500 a day as a contractor.

500 * 230 conservative work days per year = 115,000 NET

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#64

Post by wfn » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:44 AM UTC

PovilasID wrote: post #11

peteretep wrote: post #8

> You should have savings to cover at least 4 months of > your usual expenses. You will spend some money > establishing a company. It may take several weeks to > find your first contract. If you wanted to be extra safe, sure. I made the switch when I was heavily in debt, and it helped me get out of debt, so YMMV. > A service like www.formationsfactory.co.uk will make the > incorporation process easy. Actually it's su…

"Actually it's now super easy online using HMRC's site now” - You probably have Companies House in mind. HMRC deals with things like VAT and PAYE registrations. Companies House can be used for company incorporations. Furthermore, you can only use Model Articles on Companies House website. This means that you cannot set up multiple share classes during company incorporation (e.g. voting shares, profit sharing shares).

> This means that you cannot set up multiple share classes during company incorporation

You actually can - you have to select from a pre-given list of share classes, though, but I did a priority-and-ordinary shares setup thing online via companieshouse - unless that's not what you meant?

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#65

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:46 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #59

jacquesm wrote: post #53

I wrote a whole series of pages on this subject condensing the last 30 years or so: http://jacquesmattheij.com/be-consultant/ The idea was to one day bind this all together and make it a book.

Contracting in a UK sense is really very different from consulting or freelancing. It's essentially just a 9-5 short-term job, usually on-site, with more money and some extra accountancy perks.

I see more things in common than differences between those and I know people in the UK that use contract work to supplement their income when their consulting/freelancing gigs are not plentiful enough.

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#66

Post by eterm » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:46 AM UTC

nikon wrote: post #63

I think regardless of the tax benefits discussed in this thread, even with an equal playing field you will earn significantly more than your permie peers. You can get 50k if you're lucky in London, but you can earn 500 a day as a contractor. 500 * 230 conservative work days per year = 115,000 NET

230 work days aren't "conservative", that's 4.5 days/week. Given the legal minimum of 28 days holiday per year for permanent employees (28 includes bank holidays, often you'll find vacation quoted as 20 days which doesn't include the bank holidays), that's close to 100% "found work" rate.

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#67

Post by peteretep » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:47 AM UTC

nikon wrote: post #60

peteretep wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are significant tax savings, and theoretically limited liability. The significant tax savings will change next tax year with changes in dividend taxes and NIC contributions. No-one is really sure of the actual impact at this point.

7.5% on your dividends. About 3k a year for a 100k earner... Nothing to go permie about.

I had thought the jury was still out on this - I do hope it ends up being only that amount though.

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#68

Post by Dakuan » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:48 AM UTC

nikon wrote: post #63

I think regardless of the tax benefits discussed in this thread, even with an equal playing field you will earn significantly more than your permie peers. You can get 50k if you're lucky in London, but you can earn 500 a day as a contractor. 500 * 230 conservative work days per year = 115,000 NET

more like 60-70k at least for JS engineers. (I have hired and been hired at this level)

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#69

Post by batou » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:50 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #9

batou wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. Also the advice about marketing yourself is crap. Recruiters are the #1 way of landing contracts. They're finders and you're paying a finders fee for that service. They have the big guys with oodles of cash to get hold of. If you can't get a gig through a recruiter then you either don't have skills that are in demand or don't come across as someone who they'd want to sell. If you don't go through the recru…

> If you don't go through the recruiters, you end up being left with the cheap arse companies that won't pay up anyway. I've never used a recruiter, the companies I work for paid pretty good and I had one unpaid bill in a couple of decades. Building your own network and getting rid of recruiters as your main source of income is very important to new contract programmers. For one they take a cut and for another they w…

You're right on all the points there.

I did find that you can play recruiters off against each other quite easily to negotiate a higher rate. Also when you sign, you sign with the company not the recruiter and have a solid contract in place. Never work for sharecropper recruiters like some of the bigger ones.

If they want to get rid of you after 2 weeks, make sure there's an exit fee. That is usually 100% for me if under 6 months of contract left. I did 2 weeks at a company on a 3 monther at £550 a day and completed the work but was paid for the 3 months.

The particular sector I worked in was finance and that is still heavily recruiter driven unfortunately.

Re: Becoming a contractor programmer in the UK

#70

Post by radicalbyte » Fri, Jul 31, 2015, 10:51 AM UTC

piotrp wrote: post #51

peteretep wrote: post #8

> You should have savings to cover at least 4 months of > your usual expenses. You will spend some money > establishing a company. It may take several weeks to > find your first contract. If you wanted to be extra safe, sure. I made the switch when I was heavily in debt, and it helped me get out of debt, so YMMV. > A service like www.formationsfactory.co.uk will make the > incorporation process easy. Actually it's su…

> For Central London, a developer should be asking for £300-£600/pd depending on seniority and what they're doing. That seems pretty low to me. Here in the Netherlands contract developers get about the same, between £400-£600/pd (actually between 70~90 euro/hour) but cost of living is way lower than in central London.

Interesting, is that via an agency or via your own clients? I'm a Tech Lead and would like to start contracting at some point.