Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending • Hacker News Board

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#61

Post by randomname2 » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 12:57 PM UTC

debtopolis wrote: post #60

randomname2 wrote: post #44

ECB statement: ELA to Greek banks maintained at its current level - ECB takes note of decision on Greek referendum and the non-prolongation of the EU adjustment programme - ECB will work closely with Bank of Greece to maintain financial stability - Emergency liquidity assistance maintained at Friday’s (26 June 2015) level - Governing Council stands ready to review decision - Governing Council closely monitoring situa…

The Greek version of monopoly - they cleaned out the bank early, and everyone loses (game over!)

The ELA freeze was for Sunday. It will be reviewed on a daily basis.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#62

Post by debtopolis » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 12:58 PM UTC

elmar wrote: post #45

chkuendig wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Varoufakis apparently told BBC that the banks might stay closed tomorrow and that capital controls could be imposed. http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/615112479828348928 edit: scratch that. http://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/615127339102531584

Not imposing capital restrictions is suicide, i don't know if Yanis varoufakis is an economical genius a madman or simply amateurish.

He has an impossible job - when taxes are not paid, people retire at forty, government jobs pay people even higher salaries because they actually turn up, then any chance of balancing the books is looking like a Greek tragedy.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#63

Post by sambe » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 12:59 PM UTC

randomname2 wrote: post #59

sambe wrote: post #58

Several people are interpreting "stays the same" as good news for Greece and contrary to the article. I interpret it as the opposite: it will not expand further to meet the demand, thus Greek banks will run out of money. I didn't have the impression anyone expected the full amount to be recalled.

The article was incorrect by stating ELA would be "turned off", as it will merely be frozen, or at least the ECB is saying so. However if the ECB follows through on this, the end result may be the same and it's only a matter of time before the entire ELA bailout is unwound like in Cyprus.

The article seems a little confusing/confused but not strictly incorrect. There is no statement that the full amount would be recalled. The value of ELA has effectively become the extensions - the newly-lent money is being withdrawn daily. "Ending" this and refusing increase the limit could be considered the same.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#64

Post by DanielBMarkham » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:00 PM UTC

They say that newspapers readers and television viewers love a train wreck, a situation where everybody knows very bad things are coming and we all pop the popcorn and watch. It's a sad reflection on human nature, but audience numbers prove it out.

But wow, the Grexit is painful even when put into the train wreck category. It's going on and on, and the invective, hate, and hard feelings linger and fester. The amount of misery this has produced seems vastly out of proportion to the incident itself. I wonder if severe, immediate action taken at the beginning of the crisis wouldn't have resulted in something much less painful than this. 25% shrinkage in the economy and then massive bank closings? Good grief. It's becoming reminiscent of post WWI Germany.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#65

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:03 PM UTC

chongli wrote: post #40

jeroen94704 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am certainly sympathetic to the Greeks for the hardships they have faced and will undoubtedly face in the years to come, it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this. This entire mess started with Greece not having its finances in order, and essentially lying about this for years to the rest of the Eurogroup. After it became clear how dire the situation was, the Eurogroup stepped…

it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this. To what extent is any one person responsible for the actions of their government?

Except it's not just one person. Most Greeks lived well beyond their means for over a decade. I'm from Turkey and have many Greek friends, and the overall sentiment in the country up until 2008 was that they could just continue borrowing and living like kings and queens until the end of time. Then the financial meltdown happened, foreign investors became bearish and the Greeks lost their easy access to capital, and things quickly unraveled.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#66

Post by sambe » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:04 PM UTC

elmar wrote: post #45

chkuendig wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Varoufakis apparently told BBC that the banks might stay closed tomorrow and that capital controls could be imposed. http://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/615112479828348928 edit: scratch that. http://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/615127339102531584

Not imposing capital restrictions is suicide, i don't know if Yanis varoufakis is an economical genius a madman or simply amateurish.

I've noticed Greek politicians making excessively bold, emotional statements in public since the election, where perhaps some pragmatism and diplomacy would have moved things along better. It gives the impression that there is some intention to exit whilst avoiding blame with their own electorate (who I read are majority pro-EU by polling, contrary to the impression giving in media). Extremely uncooperative negotiating followed by throwing it to the people is one such tactic, claiming that you are forced to allow a banking collapse because of EU philosophy is another.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#67

Post by zapdrive » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:07 PM UTC

Its times like these that I seriously consider buying more bitcoins. Capital controls are totally unjust, in a free country. And it can happen in any country. The governments need to get their act together, instead of punishing innocent citizens. Why does a centrally controlled currency even need to exist in the first place?

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#68

Post by smil » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:08 PM UTC

jeroen94704 wrote: post #21

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gambling addict? What an incredibly unfair and childish characterisation. Greece is not a person, Greece is a nation state. It has implemented severe fiscal cutbacks after being forced to by its creditors. Cutbacks which have ruined the country's economy, massively increased poverty, and made it more difficult to pay back its debts. Now its people have voted in a government that wishes to make different reforms. Ones…

While I am certainly sympathetic to the Greeks for the hardships they have faced and will undoubtedly face in the years to come, it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this. This entire mess started with Greece not having its finances in order, and essentially lying about this for years to the rest of the Eurogroup. After it became clear how dire the situation was, the Eurogroup stepped…

No nation has its finances in order, whether they are part of the EU, or if it's the U.S. or Japan or China. Get off your high horse.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#69

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

What kind of capital controls? in this situation it is quite an oxymoron. With a different currency you can control the exchange rate or limit how much one is allowed to exchange, however Greece still has the same internal currency - the Euro. You don't have a Greek euro only - its the same currency.

To me all these conflicting reports smell like panic; decision makers just don't know what to do now, and the BBC does not know what to report. Sounds like 2008 all over again.

Re: Greece debt crisis: ECB 'to end' bank emergency lending

#70

Post by debtopolis » Sun, Jun 28, 2015, 1:11 PM UTC

zapdrive wrote: post #67

Its times like these that I seriously consider buying more bitcoins. Capital controls are totally unjust, in a free country. And it can happen in any country. The governments need to get their act together, instead of punishing innocent citizens. Why does a centrally controlled currency even need to exist in the first place?

Errrm, moving more transactions outside the general economy wouldn't have helped Greece. Paying taxes might have. Being fiscally responsible might have. Not letting everyone retire at forty might have. Cutting the red tape might have. Not cooking the books might have.