Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#61

Post by carsongross » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 4:58 PM UTC

sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

The irony is that the only way to have had a shot at making the Afghan and Iraq campaigns successful would have been to use the old-fashioned beat-cop tactics: de-escalation, peace-keeping and what is now called "community outreach" (which used to just be "knowing folks").

Bill Lind has written extensively on this topic.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#62

Post by hackuser » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #5

boards2x wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But equally the non-violent public do not deserve to face potential threats to their life and violent coercion in routine interactions with law enforcers. It is really not "the public" at large, at least not in many cases. The police seems to be profiling and directing excessive force towards non-Caucasians, as it was so obvious in the shocking incident in Texas. This case, which sort of crystallized the problem,…

The incident in Texas in only shocking when one considers the slanted reporting that the media is doing. Those kids were trespassing, were violent with minors, and flatly refused to listen to police officers. The reporting of this is nothing more then a propaganda piece. We have large populations of minorities who feel entitled to behave badly without any consequence because the color of their skin.

How sad to see such a thoughtless outburst, with fabricated facts, unsubstantiated assertions, and avoiding the real questions.

While I hope our society has progressed a little, something like this post often reminds me how many people embrace thoughtlessness and anger.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#63

Post by LordKano » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 4:59 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #37

LordKano wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police seems to be profiling and directing excessive force towards non-Caucasians Law enforcement has always directed this kind of treatment towards non-whites in the US. What has changed is that there are now cameras everywhere so the officer's word isn't enough anymore and they have begun to subject middle and upper middle income white people to the same kind of treatment that used to be reserved for black and…

And we will always think in terms of "us vs. them" because we're monkeys, and we've evolved highly intelligent brains to, among other things, protect our bananas from the monkey tribe next door. But we are getting better at overruling our monkey instincts with reason and compassion. So that's a good sign.

My belief is that it's primarily about access to one resource. Wombs. Everything else is ancillary.

What makes a racist more irate than anything? Seeing one of "Them" with one of "Our" women.

Denying good housing, education and employment to the "other" group will make them less able to compete for females from "our" group.

There are versions of this on display in the animal kingdom as well. Male lions are known to kill cubs sired by other males so that they can replace them with their own offspring. In the Gombe Chimpanzee War, females were kidnapped, raped and killed as a method of destroying the "other" group.

I also agree, humanity has come a long way and is getting better.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#64

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:00 PM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #26

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

As a complete civilian, I'd say that police in all their gear do not look intimidating to me. Mostly it's the posture, the facial expression, the tone of voice that makes someone look friendly (or not). I look at them as I look at construction workers or garbage truckers: this is what they have to wear to do their job, not best-looking, not most comfortable. I can sympathize. How is all this gear useful is another qu…

[deleted]

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#65

Post by shit_parade2 » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

Police are murderous thugs. Their pensions should be cut and department budgets gutted.

US police kill about three people a day, and shoot and harrass many more and all with hardly any consequences. They even openly operate 'blacksites' where people are detained without rights and tortured, sometimes even killed.

These are not the hallmarks of a free society, it is the symptoms of fascist military rule.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/10/the-counted-5...

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#66

Post by happyscrappy » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:01 PM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #41

bdcravens wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers... Routine traffic stop. Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request. > That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who…

Your single example means nothing. There are (at conservative estimate) around 750,000 law officers w/ arrest powers in the USA. 114 were killed in 2014. This is a 0.016% mortality rate -- and this number includes accidental deaths while on duty. This is about the same percentage as murders only in Chicago -- meaning the population of Chicago is, on average, in more danger just existing than any given police officer…

Let's just ignore who is committing all those murders in Chicago.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#67

Post by hga » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

vollmond wrote: post #57

sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

The other part is the excessive hero worship, also driven by the War on Terror. The "support the troops" conversation stopper has extended to law enforcement and any other public-facing service job, to the point where it's impossible to have a civil debate about the military, police, teachers, or anyone, without offending someone just for bringing up the topic.

And law enforcement weren't "heroes" before 9/11???

Now, I'm probably older than you, old enough to have watched the first run of hagiographic Efrem Zimbalist, Jr. F.B.I. TV series that ran until 1974, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_F.B.I._(TV_series) ), but I assure this is nothing new. E.g. I can remember more than a few debates I had with co-workers in the '90s on the War on Drugs, I said we could have that, or a free nation, but they were so petrified by the prospect of their children doing drugs that they preferred they'd live in an eventual police state.

EDITED: added eventual, since this was in the context of where we were going, still a confirmed trend two decades later.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#68

Post by dghughes » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:02 PM UTC

It also seems in some situations protestor are trying to be a warrior too how many people protesting these days wear masks now compared to 50 years ago?

I'd say it's a culture problem both police and the people they interact with both have a warrior attitude.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#69

Post by kleer001 » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:03 PM UTC

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

Not very long hair though, after a couple inches it gets to be work to keep up and it's something perps can get a hold of. But yes, exactly, more than a buzz cut would be humanizing.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#70

Post by happyscrappy » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 5:04 PM UTC

Thriptic wrote: post #59

happyscrappy wrote: post #35

All cops should be wearing cameras, but I don't think it will work out very well for the SJWs when all the interactions are clearly documented. Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot?

> Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot? You say this as if people are looking for an excuse to riot. No one wants a riot, it's bad for the participants, the police, the community, and the local economy. The only winners are looters.

Actually it was out of towners that trashed that neighborhood not residents. They had a good excuse to make a mess and steal some stuff.