An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers • Hacker News Board

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#61

Post by Akkuma » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC

pcbo wrote: post #59

Akkuma wrote: post #5

What is ironic is I had no reply on a job posting on landing.jobs after talking directly with landing.jobs too. I was able to leave feedback directly through the site that the company was unresponsive, but landing.jobs hasn't communicated since that feedback. Update: Proof http://imgur.com/m34rFUX

Hey, (Founder of Landing.jobs here) I can't guarantee you'll get feedback from the employer but I can definitely make sure we'll always insist on your behalf, and that what I just did :) Let me know if you don't hear back from them until the end of the week! Pedro

Thanks Pedro! I know it isn't your or landing.jobs fault at all. I like what you guys push for, unfortunately getting everyone to make the world a better place is hard. If companies abided by the golden rule everyone would be happier!

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#62

Post by Akkuma » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

gkop wrote: post #28

justizin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have often found myself working _for_ people who had the same negative experiences at other companies, so not only do all bad hiring practices create negative reputation, they create an entire class of people who would be perfectly happy if you didn't exist at all. :)

On "Who is hiring", you can abstain from upvoting those companies where you had a negative experience (or even downvote them, if you feel that's justified).

I stated on the update about "Who is hiring" that there needs to be a way to track and review the interactions with these companies. Glassdoor doesn't really have a "these guys never bothered to reply to my job application" section. I just went and "reviewed" companies on "Who is hiring" as this community should try to promote those we'd recommend others try to apply and those we don't believe others should waste their time with. Eventually, we'd be left with only quality job postings.

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#63

Post by x1798DE » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:20 PM UTC

atirip wrote: post #48

Robadob wrote: post #9

I recall a friend ~12 months ago (in their final year of university), hearing positive news back from IBM after 6+ months of silence since their interview, by which point they had accepted a job elsewhere. I expect some companies prefer not to officially reject, so they have more applicants to potentially consider for future positions, although many may have taken jobs elsewhere by this point.

I was once rejected by Spotify 6 months after i sent application in. No hard feelings, I just wonder who was that who waited that process out and got hired ;-)

I have no experience on the hiring side of this, but I always assumed that a lot of companies prefer not to make any clear statements until after a decision is made, since at this point it's basically zero cost to defer making a first contact with someone. It's quite possible that the person who got the job applied 2 weeks before they hired him/her, went to the top of the "interview" pile, and soared through the process.

Of course, it's also possible that someone did wait in the queue - I've been interviewing for jobs since the beginning of the year, some of which had almost no lag in contact but a fairly long process (multiple phone screens, etc), others had long lag time but a quick process.

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#64

Post by Akkuma » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:31 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #10

I've hired people before, and usually when it comes time to send rejection emails it can be very hard. If someone clearly isn't right for the job, you owe it to them to mention why- I'm an engineer, I work in absolutes and "Culture fit" or something so wishy-washy doesn't roll well off my fingers. But how do you tell people that they lack basic knowledge or experience in certain areas without sounding bitchy or attac…

I play a lot of competitive games and it is hard to give criticism in a positive way that doesn't make people freak out nowadays.

Here are some of my thoughts. If the person doesn't know enough about something tell them something like: I really appreciate your enthusiasm and interest in the job and would love to hire you in the future. Right now though, we have more candidates with more experience in x, y, z. Here are some resources to help you with those areas and I would love to talk to you again once you get more experience in those areas!

If the person isn't the best candidate you could say something like: Thanks for taking the time out to interview and talk to us over here! You are truly a great candidate and would love to hire you in the future once more positions open up. Until then, I recommend you keep building up experience in x, y, z to become the candidate we and everyone else would immediately snatch up!

I believe if you're honest and helpful you'll come off better than a company that never responds or gives a generic response.

If no one knows what they need to do to get a job, how are they going to get better so you'd want to hire them?

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#65

Post by matwood » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

sdalfakj wrote: post #60

peteboyd wrote: post #40

We are hiring right now for a new bookkeeper, actually they start Monday, so we just finalized the hiring. We regularly post ads for designers, developers and content writers too. Probably every other month I am reviewing resumes, so I have a bit of experience in responding to applicants. Typically any given job posting gets around 50 to 100 resumes depending on the category. It takes time to read through everything.…

> Our biggest gripe is that at least 50% of the applicants never follow our instructions on how to apply correctly. We put very specific steps on how to apply and want it followed (i.e. subject line, cover letter, links to portfolio, PDF resume). You need to consider the ROI for the applicant before saying "OMG follow instructions." Too many of your fellow employers ignore applicants (ROI = none), even those they int…

This is an excellent point. I have been contacted directly by companies before when they find my LinkedIn, Github or website. Occasionally they interest me so I have updated my resume and forwarded it along only to never hear from them again[1]. Luckily I'm happy at my current job and don't have to deal with the annoyances right now.

[1] Oddly enough, my public profile is pretty sparse so a more in depth resume shouldn't really turn anyone off.

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#66

Post by JSeymourATL » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:38 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #25

It sounds, based on the comments here, that both job seekers and employers can sometimes run into a frustrating lack of response (job seekers when they submit an application and never hear back; employers when they try to engage an applicant and never hear back). I wonder if there might be a business opportunity here. Suppose there were some way for both job applicants and employers to publicly commit themselves to o…

> I wonder if there might be a business opportunity here.

There's an entire multi-billion dollar industry of executive search and staffing built on this premise.

A commitment clearinghouse would threaten the existing schema of ambiguity. There are always outliers, new information, and change. There in lies the rub.

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#67

Post by jerf » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

joshka wrote: post #37

x5n1 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

too meta man, too meta.

Great superhero/villian name! Meta Man never solves the problem at hand. Instead he/she/it/they obliquely solve the generalized case. Meta Man Sees a mugger stealing cash from a victim, works on legislation to make BitCoin the default for all transactions.

JRPGS have had quite a few of those. "In my past, I suffered from $SOME_PAIN. It made me realize that the path to end pain was to END ALL LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE so there would be no more pain." Particularly hilarious if $SOME_PAIN fails to connect with you, so the villain from your point of view essentially leaps from "chosen last to play kickball" to "DESTROY EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE" (and on occasion "EVERYWHEN").

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#68

Post by s73v3r » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 6:13 PM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #13

gkop wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is merely a convenient excuse for companies behaving inconsiderately. Since many companies in the U.S. do send rejection emails, it's clearly one of any number of other reasons why some companies neglect this basic courtesy. The silver lining is, you probably don't want to work for these companies anyway :)

>Since many companies in the U.S. do send rejection emails Are you able to provide any kind of data backing up that claim? I am strongly in the "don't hate the player, hate the game" camp on this issue. This is NOT a basic courtesy but a business process that requires a lot of resources to be at least somewhat meaningful. How long do you think it takes to write a rejection letter that provides useful, actionable data…

"I am strongly in the "don't hate the player, hate the game" camp on this issue."

I am strongly in the "that is a shitty excuse perpetuated by people to excuse their crappy behavior on a wide number of things" camp.

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#69

Post by peteboyd » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 6:28 PM UTC

grayclhn wrote: post #57

peteboyd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every resume just comes into Outlook as a single email and then sorted into a folder based on the subject (hence our need to follow directions). A bit old-school, but it works. So we would need to reply individually to every single email (i.e. hit reply and cut-paste). 50 emails would probably be 15 minutes of work, but I would rather not waste that time. The main point is that some of the resumes we get are complete…

I'm sure that this is something you've considered and chose not to do for a good reason, but it seems like using a different email address for each job posting would eliminate a lot of the problems caused by an incorrect subject line.

Actually, oddly enough, I did not think about that. Thanks for the tip. We have changed the email address from time to time, when one gets picked up by spam.

We do like the subject line to be a pass/fail test though - especially on jobs that require attention to detail (i.e. bookkeeping or junior developers who are on support/punch lists).

The instructions are pretty clear and if someone cannot follow step one, they are probably not going to be able to follow our internal checklists.

Re: An email template for candidates frustrated with unresponsive employers

#70

Post by peteboyd » Wed, Jun 03, 2015, 6:36 PM UTC

sdalfakj wrote: post #60

peteboyd wrote: post #40

We are hiring right now for a new bookkeeper, actually they start Monday, so we just finalized the hiring. We regularly post ads for designers, developers and content writers too. Probably every other month I am reviewing resumes, so I have a bit of experience in responding to applicants. Typically any given job posting gets around 50 to 100 resumes depending on the category. It takes time to read through everything.…

> Our biggest gripe is that at least 50% of the applicants never follow our instructions on how to apply correctly. We put very specific steps on how to apply and want it followed (i.e. subject line, cover letter, links to portfolio, PDF resume). You need to consider the ROI for the applicant before saying "OMG follow instructions." Too many of your fellow employers ignore applicants (ROI = none), even those they int…

Yes, I definitely consider the time of the applicant. I would hate to miss a good person by making it tough to apply.

I am thinking it should be five minutes or less to apply to our job. 30 to 45 minutes seems like A LOT. I am not sure I would even take that amount of time to apply for a job. I would rather introduce myself personally via email or social networks to the employer than spend that time.

One point is that Indeed.com and other job boards make it too easy to apply. I believe, that within a few clicks and someone can apply to a posting, so often the person may not have read the ad fully.

This is turning more and more into a blog post. I should run the stats on our last posting of craiglist vs. indeed and showcase the data.

Oddly enough, I think our final choice came from indeed. But out of the eight actual interviews, I know the other seven came from craigslist posting (or blog post). Of the other indeed candidates, I remember going on a roll of saying "nope" to about 10 to 15 in a row because they did not meet our needs (no experience, etc). Probably need to add a filter in the job posting.