Seems like people are upset that they didn't compare JEE to common frameworks and platforms that startups are known to use often like node.js w/ Express, Ruby on Rails, and Django rather than trying to explain more of what's interesting about modern JEE.
A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
61–70 of 104 posts
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
JSF and EJB are the reason why Java EE is lately considered the "secret weapon". The fact is that both invoke memories of old times where they were very heavyweight and problematic technologies. EJB was a total disaster, where you needed to implement 3 interfaces and inherit from a framework provided base class, compile your code with a special "enhancing" tool and run yet another tool to generate something called st…
I don't understand how "sucking less" makes JSF a secret weapon. What advantages does it provide over other, simpler ways of managing templates and views?
Let's turn it around, what do these "other" ways have as advantage?
It's not sucking less, it's completely not sucking at all. JSF is very powerful and easy these days. I've dabbled in various other technologies, and I think they pretty much all sucked and where much more complicated.
I do like AngularJS 1 somewhat, but it's a client side technology which has its own set of disadvantages (remember why Twitter went back to serverside generation of "ready-to-render-html")
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it is the same crappy mess of piles of unnecessary layes of ugly, redundant abstractions. This is straw-man stuff based on an old view of who uses Java and when. I've programmed in a lot of languages - C++, Java, Objective-C (with a NeXT, of course) and the trendier functional, meta-programming languages. One of the cliches (and truisms) of C++ is that you only use a subset. This is what people are doing with Java…
OK. This your choice and your conditionig. I, if you allow me, would still hold an opinion that web services could be made without "everything is an object" meme or "static typing which catches errors". There are Arc and Erlang and even Common Lisp based solutions. Also I would argue that Golang is a much better alternative, which has been creayed, in part, because J2EE sucks. Straw man or whatever you would call it.
> because J2EE sucks
It does, but Java EE is great! :)
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#64I can imagine that they feel themselves productive with EJB but only without the contrast say Ruby, Python or LISP would give.
Choosing Java over Ruby/Python for your web-app really depends on what you want to sacrifice.
I counted LISP out because unless you're using Clojure, I know for sure you're not going to be able to beat anything else for web-app development. LISP for web-app probably works in the 90's for PG but we're in 2015 where libraries, frameworks, and tools for these other languages are just far too advanced and more productive than writing macros... sorry mate.
Anyway, back to Java over Ruby/Python.
Take a few examples:
At the Microservice area, Java seems to shine over other languages/platforms. JAX-RS feels more complete than Sinatra or whatever Django plugins that the Python community use. See a quick example of JAX-RS vs Sinatra somewhere in this blog post: (http://www.appneta.com/blog/microservice-service-oriented-ar...)
Maven can be huge and underwhelming (and ugly once in a while) but it's definitely more powerful than gems+bundler+rake and whatever Python adopts these days. Maven has been around for a while so most Java DEVs don't have to pick up tools as Python DEVs have to do quite often. But again, there are trade-offs: Maven XML is definitely uglier than Bundler or requirements.txt or package.json.
Let me ask one thing: in platform other than Java, do you use declarative transaction? My guess is "No". Which means you have to know when to open and close a transaction (and potentially join an existing one if the library isn't smart enough). Java Spring/EJB provides annotation based transaction.
I'm not suggesting that Java is better than other languages, but there are advantages of choosing Java.
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#65I hate to tell you all since none will thank me, but the horse has left the barn - we now have 'thick client' where the app is client side in .js. Also consider APIs/Baas: Backendless.com, Kinvery, App42, etc. http://baas.apievangelist.com . DIY REST is purely optional, for companies w/ poor CTO/CFO. PHP, JSP, ASP, Rails, Django is in same boat, server side rendering of UI is past prime, we now need stunning UI, ex:…
I read somewhere that the best troll comments are ones where you can't tell if the poster actually means what he says or is trolling.
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#66We're (re)developing almost all our infrastructure in modern Java EE (as layers of microservices). We're seeing less than 2mS response time for most services and can afford to stack quite a few to build our customer facing applications. Ignoring the business logic, a RESTful API can be built to run on a Java EE application server in about 10 lines of code. And it will run on any Java EE 6-7 compliant server implement…
Excellent timing. So I have played most of the time since college in Python, bash, Perl, and very little Ruby (in that order). I am going back to school to Java as part of my "torture yourself with the basics you blew off" undergrad career that was not CS, and now had a change of heart.
I have seen in /r/java and Reddit and elsewhere people eschew even for newbies the use of Spring Boot, Ninja, Dropwizard in company. Some like you say Java EE is very friendly and I can write a full-featured REST service in like a dozen or so lines of Java. Seeing as I wrote small pieces of homework "employee ID insertion into memory" classes in like 100-200 lines, can you show me said examples? Hyperbole or not, I would love to see good articles about building REST services and other stuff in pure Java EE and/or JAX-RS style explaining how a Java newbie can do this stuff.
I think other novates would greatly appreciate. The expanse of Java web libraries is so vast even showing the minimalist modern style I am jealous of in your post would be a huge benefit to me.
UPDATE: Oh Jesus Christ! Now I remember why the name Zeef seemed familiar. You make that one of the few tutorial sites I found. Now, I will go crawl under the HN couch while onlookers stare and surpress chuckles. Always read the articles, dammit! Or meet me under the couch, rather.
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#67Perhaps OT: I often swing by Java web/services frameworks every year or so and I never see a good DB migration/evolution story. I'm fairly certain that it's because I don't know where to look or that I'm thinking about it incorrectly, but I've yet to see a Java web/services framework that supports the easy database migration/evolution schemes of Django/South or of Rails. Are these migration schemes not supported for a reason? Or am I missing the docs?
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#68Perhaps OT: I often swing by Java web/services frameworks every year or so and I never see a good DB migration/evolution story. I'm fairly certain that it's because I don't know where to look or that I'm thinking about it incorrectly, but I've yet to see a Java web/services framework that supports the easy database migration/evolution schemes of Django/South or of Rails. Are these migration schemes not supported for…
I can't really say how good they are but I found Liquibase (used by the Dropwizard framework), and FlyWay.
So there are some options available.
Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#69Re: A Java EE Startup: Filtering information with zeef.com
#70For rich web applications, GWT is a great option. It is a blessing to write the frontend with the same language and toolchain as the backend, re-using domain classes and constants across the projects. Our current project uses Spring MVC for the backend, exposing REST services, and GWT for the frontend, with Resty for marshalling data structures back and forth. It works really well.
How do you feel about improvements in GWT development speed? In terms of development mode, compilation times and the whole process of making a java code change and seeing the result in a browser? Is there a lot of work on making this better? GWT is nice, but I remember a lot of frustration came from buggy dev modes and compilation times.
It has improved a lot just within the last year, with the new development mode landing, and it will be really good once incremental compilation arrives, which is scheduled for this year. Just compile, refresh browser, done.
I kind of enjoyed debugging in the IDE with the old dev mode, but I agree it was kind of quirky and slow.