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MIT alumni in their 50s

blogs.law.harvard.edu

61–70 of 159 posts

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#61

Ugh. Confirmation bias and sample size aside, these are MIT alumni. Aren't they already supposed to be above average? That being said, he didn't exactly say what sort of engineers these folks were. Electrical? Software? Big difference.. Also, one thing that didn't jive, if they are in financially uncomfortable retirement, why exactly are they showing up at a donors gathering?

As an MIT alum in my 50s, let me assure you that a specific fundraiser is assigned to target you, personally and individually. "Ugh," indeed.

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#62

This post reeks of confirmation bias or at least the sample size is too low to draw any conclusions. What if that software engineer didn't want to progress his career and was happy at the level he was? What about those engineers that did go into management? I could be wrong but if you choose to stay in a roll a 30yo can fill why would it be strange that you would be expected to compete with those younger to get a job…

Why wouldn't that also apply to doctors? Maybe a surgeon enjoys the surgery, doesn't want to manage a surgery department of a hospital. I think the relative comparison is still relevant.

Because in both the doctor and professor cases, the knowledge base is curated, history and experience (at least - I was tempted to add "and judgement learned therefrom") count for something. Alan Kay is right when he says software is "pop culture," and its "disdain for history is what makes computing not-quite-a-field."

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#63
post #54
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An MIT bachelor's degree includes a decent amount of liberal arts. The HASS requirement has been around for a long time -- 1980s? http://web.mit.edu/hassreq/

I don't know when that particular name for it dates to, but some sort of liberal arts requirement has been around for even longer. To be sure, if you take the minimum and take courses that aren't really liberal arts (e.g. accounting or microeconomics), it's fairly minimal. But the opportunity is certainly there to get a fairly broad education.

Feynman writes about having to satisfy a liberal arts requirement in Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman, so the requirement goes back at least to the late thirties.

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#64
Missing an alternative option: migrate to, perhaps even become citizen in, a country with a half decent social welfare system.

> Lesson: Unless you are confident that your skills are very far above average, don’t take a career path that subjects you to the employment market once you’re over 50 (and/or make sure that by age 50 you’ve saved enough for a retirement that begins at age 50 or 55

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#65
Ageism exists in the professions but it's legible and practically published. If you start law school at 30, you probably won't get Biglaw unless you clerk for a Supreme Court justice. You can get into a PhD program at any age, but you're not going to get a tenure-track position if you're after 40. Midlife career switchers generally don't get in.

The difference is that, in the professions, you have to get in early but it's the norm to move up fast enough that ageism isn't a problem because, even if you make a couple of mistakes, you'll be at an age-appropriate level. You may not be a biglaw partner or chief surgeon earning 7 figures, but you'll be substantial enough that you're still taken seriously.

In software engineering, there isn't a well-defined sense of what "up" is or what's "age appropriate". There isn't a published career track and a legible ageism. It's there, but it's hard to tell exactly when it's there. Is being a programmer at 55 age-appropriate? If you're an AI researcher at Google X, then yes, absolutely. If you're checking your Jira every morning to figure out which user stories you're going to be working on, then no one's going to believe that you chose to be a programmer instead of a manager. (Hell, I wouldn't believe you. I might still hire you, because I'm mature enough to separate low social status in one theater apart from low ability. If you're 55 and still have to deal with user stories, it means that you managed your social status poorly; but you might still be a rock-solid engineer whom I'd hire in a heartbeat.)

If you look at the Valley's emerging professional model, it's not a kind one and it's not one that ages well. You choose between (a) a "main sequence" where each jump is a dramatically different job, from engineer to manager to founder to investor, and where there are structural reasons why most people will never make it; or (b) fighting for the small percentage of jobs that are genuinely interesting and age-appropriate at any age.

I think it's much easier to deal with age if you're a consultant, because it leaves you out of the political structure of a firm. It makes people uncomfortable to have a 35-year-old "Software Manager II" overseeing a 55-year-old badass. With age, you just don't fit into the corporate hierarchy unless you've climbed it. If you're a consultant and live outside of the hierarchy, then age doesn't really matter.

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#66
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that was my thought. If you're still a programmer at age 50, either something has gone very wrong in your career development, or you're such a legend in the field that it would be a loss to the world if you had moved on.

What?? Are you serious? Why would programming be different from other activities/occupations? "Oh, this guy is still operating after 3 decades and never became a hospital director. Something's wrong with the guy."

When you're my age, you'll know what I mean. If your job title still reads 'programmer' or 'developer', rather than 'architect' or 'chief/lead/head of-'etc , something has gone wrong.

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#67

As an MIT student... should I not become a programmer? I do feel like I'm nearing the peak of my programming ability, and now would be the time to switch to a field with more "lock-in". What would that field be? Medicine? Mechanical engineering? Consultancy?

A student feeling like they are nearing their peak of ability is more likely to just be reaching the point that, 10 years from now, you will consider to be simply a base level of competency.

Seconded, especially with regards to skills at working in team structures, with things like version control.

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#68
post #58
post #6

The other conclusion is, always be hireable. I guess it’s hard to be 50 and pride yourself to work for senior-senior level salary when a 30 year old can easily do your job. Hierarchies worked very well in the uni prof’s favour, but engineering companies tend to apply flatter structures. If there’s nothing that keeps the young folks competing, they will. So for us, engineers it may be a good idea to move to supervisor…

good programmers can always consult. old managers can't do nothing unless he is hired at a big company, which is exactly what won't happen according to this

> good programmers can always consult.

as if ageism didn't exist in the consulting business ...

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A student feeling like they are nearing their peak of ability is more likely to just be reaching the point that, 10 years from now, you will consider to be simply a base level of competency.

Seconded, especially with regards to skills at working in team structures, with things like version control.

Version control? That's, like, not the hard part.

Re: MIT alumni in their 50s

#70

This post really scares me and part of me wants to quit this industry even though I enjoy coding. Ageism is a brutal reality.

Engineering has always been a brutal profession as well. Historically, it's a cyclical, feast or famine profession.
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