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Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

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Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#61
The only reason I can imagine applying to YC and then not going through with the startup if I didn't get in is if when I applied I wasn't totally sure that I and my cofounder were totally on crack when we thought we could start a startup. Acceptance by YC would, in that situation, give a big confidence boost, and validate the idea. I don't think that's a terribly unreasonable premise. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some currently successful startups who thought they might not do it if they didn't get into YC.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#62

I think I understand from personal experience what he might be trying to describe in terms of not letting YC be your alpha / omega. We applied to the Fall 06 YC round. I was in school and my co-founder had a job at a small software company. Really we just had a cool idea and wanted to do it. When we found out about YC we thought it was "perfect for us". We spent a week or two struggling over answering question just r…

---"If the author had good intentions"---

Yeah that rant was a bit hard to follow. In particular his definition of "backup plan" seems rather fuzzy.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#63

I was rejected by YC for the 2006 WFP. I created an app with no funding that didn't make any money, but gave me credibility. As a result, my current (new) project is funded. If it had kept looking for funding instead of just building something, I probably would have given up long ago. The true ethos of a hacker lies in building stuff. If you get rejected, just keep building stuff!

Rich, that's a great point, and one that I hope doesn't get lost in this discussion.

YC, like other angels/VC firms, has a profile they prefer, even if they may not state it explicitly: i.e. teams of at least two people, under 35, writing web-based software, etc.

So just because you don't fit that profile (or you do, but YC rejected you), doesn't mean you will fail.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, you're a liar. You've edited or deleted half of your posts after I replied to them. Maybe you'll pull the wool over the eyes of someone that stumbles into the thread now, but your initial comment said that the author should apologize for comparing Paul to the musician.

How DARE you call me a liar? You work in a PR firm, so you use WORDS. I use LOGIC. The point of my thread was that the author was being a jerk to Paul and should apologize. When I posted the quote where it's clear the author is insulting Paul, you got all uppity about it. "your initial comment said that the author should apologize for comparing Paul to the musician." At what point did I deny that I "compared Paul to…

Voice,

You are correct, I work in PR. The reason you know this is because I've provided a reasonable level of transparency in my profile. Additonally, I use my real name as my user name becuase I want to be held accountable for what I say.

If I ever lied to a reporter it would end my career. I'm sorry if you felt like I was attacking you, I wasn't. I was debating the merit of your arguements, which is lost now because you continuously edit them.

Public relations has nothing to do with attacking people. The 150 people I work with would be highly offended if I told them that we lie by trade - it is simply not the case.

Do I exaggerate? Yes, but who doesn't? I'd wager the best YC applications contain a degree of hyperbole, because no one wants to get involved with something that isn't exciting.

Finally, words are the simplest way to express logic, so I'm glad we could find some common ground. If you go back and read my original comment you'll see I wasn't attacking you. I wasn't even disagreeing with you. I was simply adding my insight to your original post, which is lost now because you continue to edit or delete what you say. I'm not going to debate this any further with you, because I am starting to feel foolish being dragging into this.

So again, I am sorry if you felt attacked, that was not my intention.

Best wishes,

Clinton

PS - I've taken the liberty of copying and pasting your post below so you won't feel compelled to edit it.

0 points by voiceofreason 10 hours ago | link | parent How DARE you call me a liar? You work in a PR firm, so you use WORDS. I use LOGIC.

The point of my thread was that the author was being a jerk to Paul and should apologize. When I posted the quote where it's clear the author is insulting Paul, you got all uppity about it.

"your initial comment said that the author should apologize for comparing Paul to the musician."

At what point did I deny that I "compared Paul to the musician?" I never claimed I never said that. I simply replied to you and posted his quote you might have missed where the author said "YC is a waste of time" and also says, Paul is a bull who speaks "shit". That's why I said the author should apologize.

The author obviously meant to say Steve instead of Paul, in the intro. I didn't confuse that part of the article like you arrogantly believed. The reason I compared the two is because the user shows disdain and hate for the YC, so much he even confused his friend and Paul's names, when the two had nothing to do with one another.

You work in public relations so you're probably very good at attacking people. You're a liar and exaggerate by trade.

Do you understand it now? Or are you attacking me just because you're a PR person trying to test your training?

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#66
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How DARE you call me a liar? You work in a PR firm, so you use WORDS. I use LOGIC. The point of my thread was that the author was being a jerk to Paul and should apologize. When I posted the quote where it's clear the author is insulting Paul, you got all uppity about it. "your initial comment said that the author should apologize for comparing Paul to the musician." At what point did I deny that I "compared Paul to…

Congratulations! This is the first flame war on Y Combinator. Now let's just Godwin it and be done.

I don't see any Hitler or Nazis...

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#67
While the original post may have been a bit off target it certainly set off a very interesting comment conversation. The post has been thoroughly critiqued here, but I did want to add on thing that came to mind as I was reading through the discussion.

YC is a model that was created based on expereince and success. The value of YC funding is not the money, $5-20 k is not hard to save or raise.

It has been encouraging and interesting to hear from so many people, who obviously find a lot of value in VC's approach, offering slight variances based on their personal situation.

It is important to take what is valuable from a model and apply it to your own startup situation. If you can implement the use the best concepts and models from other and apply them to your unique startup, you will reduce the chance of failure and save a ton of time and money.

If you fallow blindly and base your success on one groups acceptance your not an entrepreneur.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#68
It seems like this guy is a big fan of the [Ben and Jerry's] (http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000056.html) organic company model, and is deriding YC for being more of the "amazon" big burst type model (or at least accusing YC of creating small startup companies that follow the Amazon model). This analogy is slightly flawed, because, like ViaWeb, most of the startups that YC funds don't really seem like Amazon model companies. I would say that the author of this article is drawing the line between "organic startup" and "explosive funded company" much closer to the side of startups that start small, and including YC funded companies on the "explosive funded" side. That may account for some of his anger.

FWIW, his piece does have a good point: that a viable startup should be able to continue along a successful path even if they get rejected by YC. But as other people have noted there are benefits to being funded by YC: firstly they can [remove some of your distractions](http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=9439) and give you good advice; and secondly, applying to and being rejected by YC might just [force you to step up and improve your company](http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=9486). While there certainly are (and should be) companies that don't need YC to become successful, I think if you can get ahead by getting funded, then you should do it, and that's why YC really matters.

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#69
Though it could be said in a much less offensive way, I agreed with this in the article

"I read YCombinator Startup News. I read that thing that Paul wrote saying that anybody who contributes regularly is going to fare better. That’s shit from a bull! Anybody who is spending time posting on a site that is a collection of links to dream money instead of working on his project is never going to make money. Anybody who cares about “karma” on that site instead of spending time reaching users for his product is an idiot."

I've been checking out these threads for a few days and have started leaving comments because that apparently gives you a better chance. Paul has a lot of tough choices to make and I understand his reasons for using comments as one of the many tools in filtering prospective startups, but I really hope its a small small factor. Sure it proves I read blogged advice and other mumbo jumbo on the subject of startups and am interested in the funding, but it also might indicate that a person has way too much free time or has a serious net addiction (a major development killer). I've been getting ready to kick start my startup this summer for over a month now. During that time I've read a lot of these startup articles, all of Paul's entries, Founders at Work, bought a few other books and searched the net for VC firms and how to get in touch with them. One article at the beginning of the process affected me greatly. When I was making the tough decision to do the startup or take a very appealing job offer I read Paul's article (not to brown nose) "A student's guide to startups" which said the best time to start one is when you're 24, fresh out of grad school, and hopefully have a solid internship behind you. That was something I didn't know and hit me hard because this summer that will be my exact situation. If I hadn't have read it I might have missed my perfect window! I made my decision right then. Every article, book, or resource since however has been repetitive and more draining on my energy to get started than helpful.

My point, and the article's author's point in the quoted paragraph is, use these articles to get yourself inspired and confident about doing this thing and then stop reading and commenting! You're inspired now don't kill it and waste your time with reading more and more of the same crap, go make your own stories. This is most likely my last post here. I hope that doesn't effect my rating :).

Re: Why Y Combinator is a waste of time

#70
post #38
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed his point. Yes, what you are doing is replicating the situation that worked for you. And this program is probably a good one for students who are still in college and want to build a company over the summer. But anyone who has left college and is working for a living should be able to save up one months living expenses every month. (EG: make 25 an hour, gross $4k, $3.6k after taxes, live on $1,500 a month…

I was 30 when we started Viaweb, and I needed the money. Viaweb raised a total of $2.5 million during its life. Some of the time I was focused on funding. Investors like you to be, when you're asking for that much. It's ridiculous to suggest that one has a choice of focusing on funding or building a business. Pretty nearly 100% of successful startups take outside funding, from Google on down.

Quoting yourself:

"When we started our startup in 1995, the first three were our biggest expenses. We had to pay $5000 for the Netscape Commerce Server, the only software that then supported secure http connections. We paid $3000 for a server with a 90 MHz processor and 32 meg of memory. And we paid a PR firm about $30,000 to promote our launch.

Now you could get all three for nothing. You can get the software for free; people throw away computers more powerful than our first server; and if you make something good you can generate ten times as much traffic by word of mouth online than our first PR firm got through the print media."

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