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Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

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Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#61

Post by Someone »

awjr wrote: post #2

When it comes to cycling, a network is only as good as its weakest link. Seville had an eleven fold increase in cycling by 'simply' installing protected cycle lanes. http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cyclin... The golden rule is to segregate. Give cars, bicycles, and feet their own space. DO NOT mix. If somebody can make a choice to put their 6 year old child on a bike and cycle around a city, you…

"Do not mix" is too expensive for smaller roads, and may not even be possible without tearing down buildings.

Also "mix everything" is a viable option, too, if people behave themselves. The "woonerf" (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woonerf) is a very good solution for densely built neighborhoods (even in the USA, it seems: http://ithacavoice.com/2015/04/ithaca-housing-project-includ....

In a similar fashion, I see little wrong with cyclists driving on sidewalks. Problems only start when they drive faster than pedestrians in a busy street. In other words: if they do not acknowledge that they are guests on the sidewalk.

That is fairly typical behaviour in the Netherlands. People will cycle through almost empty pedestrian-only zones at 10-15 km/hour, slow down to walking speed when coming close to pedestrians, and start walking, bike in hand, if things get really busy. Legal? Not everywhere, but this rarely gets you a fine.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#62

Post by wlesieutre »

agumonkey wrote: post #38
bambax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

A few more issues. * Stealing: You need a secure location to drop your bike, or you're under the risk of losing it[1]. I knew it was risky, but I never knew how easy, cheap and fast it is to steal a bike[2]. * Speed: I used to ride above average speed on dedicated and isolated channel lanes (Ourcq), but you can't always keep that pace. Kids, families, slower users... It's risky for everyone. In town lanes are thinner…

> Surprisingly people assume that someone cutting metal in the street must be the owner

Only if you're white. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#63

Post by akgerber »

lovemenot wrote: post #5
awjr wrote: post #2

When it comes to cycling, a network is only as good as its weakest link. Seville had an eleven fold increase in cycling by 'simply' installing protected cycle lanes. http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cyclin... The golden rule is to segregate. Give cars, bicycles, and feet their own space. DO NOT mix. If somebody can make a choice to put their 6 year old child on a bike and cycle around a city, you…

>> The golden rule is to segregate. Give cars, bicycles, and feet their own space. DO NOT mix. This seems too emphatic, given the counter-example of Japanese cities, which have few dedicated bicycle lanes, yet remarkably high rates of cycle usage.

Japan is a very different country— one is not able to own a car without a certificate demonstrating they have an off-street place to park it (resulting in lower car ownership), and, more importantly, very narrow streets that largely preclude the kind of high speed motoring that's dangerous to cyclists.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#64

Post by ptaipale »

jellicle wrote: post #44
sveme wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for being harsh, but suggesting that German coal power plants are responsible for Paris smog is just bollocks, Paris being around 300km from the French-German border. There are ample reasons to criticise the "Energiewende", but Paris smog is definitely not one of them.

Toronto, Ontario is 400km from Ohio, and gets smog from Ohio's coal plants all the time. The studies suggest about half of Toronto's air pollution is due to U.S. power plants. I have no idea what the reality is of smog in Europe, but your off-hand dismissal of this based on the perceived distance between the source and recipient of the pollution is entirely wrong.

However, the prevailing wind in Europe is from southwest. Paris doesn't get smog from the Ruhr, mostly it is vice versa.

Of course, occasionally the wind is the other way round, but overall, any bad air in Paris is due to Paris.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#65

Post by agumonkey »

wlesieutre wrote: post #62
agumonkey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few more issues. * Stealing: You need a secure location to drop your bike, or you're under the risk of losing it[1]. I knew it was risky, but I never knew how easy, cheap and fast it is to steal a bike[2]. * Speed: I used to ride above average speed on dedicated and isolated channel lanes (Ourcq), but you can't always keep that pace. Kids, families, slower users... It's risky for everyone. In town lanes are thinner…

> Surprisingly people assume that someone cutting metal in the street must be the owner Only if you're white. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg

Oh god, steal-flirting ... Still very sad video. The contrasts in reactions are making me uncomfortable, I didn't expect variations so large.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#67

Post by bertil »

bambax wrote: post #14
bertil wrote: post #4

Financial incentives do not make sense: having a car in Paris is already crazy expensive. During the 20 years I lived there, I cycled everywhere, and I had an almost weekly accident, always at the same three intersections -- cars running into stationary bikes, half the time openly on purpose (there is a bolo for a taxi driver for attempted manslaughter under my name: his plaque was unlegible on the camera, but him ac…

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

> I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else.

Of course not! I did; and that landed me in the hospital twice. It is far safer for bikes to go through an intersection after of before the wave of cars, not when the light turns green and the cars turning right are rushing into you. The other issue is that you and most others ignore the actual rules: a bicycle is perfectly allowed to drive in the middle of the road. Try doing that once in Paris, and I'll be happy to bring you flowers after your recovery. Most streets in Paris are single-way for cars, but clearly marked as both ways for bicycle: same thing, try it once, dare to point at the signs, and you'll get honked at and ran into just to teach you how to “respect road signs”.

Has anyone ever apologised for making up rules like those? Come on; be serious: you and so many others are far too busy telling us that we are wrong to actually check the facts.

The rest of your comment proves that you do not know what you are talking about.

> Personnally I ride a motorcycle;

Now we are talking… Running red lights; parking illegally; running up one-way street… you never heard of those; have you? And my favourite: kicking bikes at the red light to stand just in front and have the biker enjoy your noxious fumes, unfiltered. You are polluting Paris dozen times more than a car does, and nothing would help both bicycles and Paris in general that you realise what a selfish prick you are.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#68

Post by strathmeyer »

bambax wrote: post #14
bertil wrote: post #4

Financial incentives do not make sense: having a car in Paris is already crazy expensive. During the 20 years I lived there, I cycled everywhere, and I had an almost weekly accident, always at the same three intersections -- cars running into stationary bikes, half the time openly on purpose (there is a bolo for a taxi driver for attempted manslaughter under my name: his plaque was unlegible on the camera, but him ac…

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

Don't hit humans with your car, no matter how much they irritate you. It's morally wrong.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#69

Post by bambax »

bertil wrote: post #67
bambax wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. It's true that many car drivers are very aggressive towards bicycle riders, but what you fail to mention is that everyone cheers for the car and not the bike... Personnally I ride a motorcycle; it was stolen last year and so I used bikes for about a month…

> I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. Of course not! I did; and that landed me in the hospital twice. It is far safer for bikes to go through an intersection after of before the wave of cars, not when the light turns green and the cars turning right are rushing into you. The other issue is…

>> [bicycles] don't respect road signs or traffic lights

> Of course not!

> you and so many others are far too busy telling us that we are wrong to actually check the facts

You admit to running red lights, but won't admit you're wrong? Okay...

> what a selfish prick you are

> You are polluting Paris dozen times more than a car does

I'll let go of the insult (after driving a two-wheel in Paris for over 30 years, I've heard everything), but I wonder how motorbikes could be polluting "dozen times more than a car"??

Motorbikes consume less fuel for a shorter amount of time -- since we don't get stuck in traffic and don't look for a parking spot for hours when we arrive at destination. Please explain.

Re: Paris’ $160M Plan to Boost Cycling

#70

Post by bertil »

bambax wrote: post #69
bertil wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've lived in Paris for 45+ years. The problem with bicycles is that they don't respect road signs or traffic lights, which irritate the hell out of everybody else. Of course not! I did; and that landed me in the hospital twice. It is far safer for bikes to go through an intersection after of before the wave of cars, not when the light turns green and the cars turning right are rushing into you. The other issue is…

>> [bicycles] don't respect road signs or traffic lights > Of course not! > you and so many others are far too busy telling us that we are wrong to actually check the facts You admit to running red lights, but won't admit you're wrong? Okay... > what a selfish prick you are > You are polluting Paris dozen times more than a car does I'll let go of the insult (after driving a two-wheel in Paris for over 30 years, I've…

> You admit to running red lights, but won't admit you're wrong? Okay...

I admit precisely to sticking to the rules and paying dearly for it:

>> I did; and that landed me in the hospital twice.

> I wonder how motorbikes could be polluting "dozen times more than a car"??

https://www.google.com/search?q=moped+pollution+microparticl...

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