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Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

carbon3d.com

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Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#61

Post by Geee »

kerridge0 wrote: post #60
Geee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this process really better than the one used in the Peachy printer? Peachy printer uses resin tank that is filled with salt water from the bottom (which raises the level continuously, resin floats on saltwater) and the UV curing is done from the top. One huge thing for the Peachy is that you can use any tank, and the size of the print isn't limited. Also, Peachy costs just $100.

Well here you only need a small tank relative to the finished print, also, you don't move the laser head, but only the parts of the item that has already been printed. Everything else stays still, meaning reduced vibration which seems to mean a really steady quality of print.

In Peachy, both the laser head and the print are fixed in place. So it doesn't have the usual moving parts at all (although it uses modulated laser mirrors instead of a projector for cost reasons).

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#62

Post by lotsofmangos »

adventured wrote: post #57
lostsock wrote: post #13

This looks amazing though I'm not really sure it is the speed that has been the thing holding back 3D printers, although that is certainly an aspect of it. I still think the biggest thing stopping adoption is most people not having any idea what to print on a 3D printer, even if buying, operating, calibrating and maintaining one was cheap and easy.

Speed is a very big market impediment for 3D printing. You can't mass deploy printing kiosks at consumer stores if it takes four hours to make a mug or a trinket (you can, but it's absurd). If it takes five minutes you can and people will buy all sorts of custom products that way. Someone on Reddit mentioned it taking 20 hours to print half a skull. That's ridiculous. This will do it in probably 20 or 30 minutes, and…

20 hours to print a plastic skull you have just designed on a kit printer is still quick and cheap enough to feel amazing. Most small objects I do take about an hour or so and it is still cool to have drawn something and then go off and watch something on tv and come back to a working part.

I agree that having a massive increase in speed is cool, but the materials range for UV cured stuff isn't that high. If we are talking wishlists, I'd rather have plastics and metals in one print and be taking a few hours, than a UV cured object in minutes, but that is because of the applications I am interested in. I do think this tech is very very cool though, especially given the detail level you can get at that speed.

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#63

Post by gavazzy »

crocowhile wrote: post #48

I am just a bit sad that this is going to be a commercial venture protected by Intellectual Property. IP is the reason why filament extrusion is so widespread and cheap for DIYers compared to SLA.

If it weren't for patents, they likely wouldn't have spent $40million developing it. Someone would reverse engineer it and then launch a Kickstarter and sell it without having to spend the R&D cost.

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#64

Post by jonnycowboy »

crocowhile wrote: post #48

I am just a bit sad that this is going to be a commercial venture protected by Intellectual Property. IP is the reason why filament extrusion is so widespread and cheap for DIYers compared to SLA.

Don't worry. IP protection is only for commercial ventures. Once the details are well understood by hobbyists, you will be able to build one yourself with no worries of infringement. That said, I'll hold my breath until somebody replicates the optically transparent - oxygen permeable membrane (I guess it is some kind of "holed" plastic or glass, with a goretex-like coating on one side).

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#65

Post by bri3d »

8dad6bea wrote: post #28
bri3d wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing the "growing" on a membrane at the bottom of the tank, instead of layer by layer at the top of the tank. That should let them print really quickly and precisely, even compared to the SLA printers you link. The reason it hasn't been possible in the past is that the polymerization process requires oxygen, which has only previously been available from the air over the liquid resin. Their system has some "s…

You've got it backwards about the role of oxygen--it is being used to inhibit polymerization in this case. They are allowing oxygen to dissolve into a thin layer at the bottom of the vat so that the build doesn't stick to the membrane, and they can have a continuous draw. The true build layer is actually within the liquid, near the bottom, but not on it.

You're totally right. Oxygen inhibits the polymerization process. Interestingly, oxygen inhibition is also what allows things to be printed in layers (or, in this case continuously) as it allows the newly cured material to bond to the partially-cured inhibited material below it.

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#66

Post by phkahler »

iamwil wrote: post #23
drabiega wrote: post #6

Unless I'm missing something, this is not exactly a new technology. http://makezine.com/2014/07/26/droplit-the-low-cost-diy-resi... http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-high-resolution-3D-DLP-p... http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120911-a-list-of-diy-high-re...

You are. Using UV to cure photo-sensitive resin isn't the innovation, it's using the oxygen permeable membrane. If you look at the Form 1 printer or the B9Creator, there's a mechanical step between every layer where it needs to actuate the platform in order to loosen the resin from the projection window, so it can build the next layer. In the Form 1, it peels the print off, and the B9Creator slides a window. (look fo…

>> What the oxygen membrane allows us to do is to skip that step between every layer, and simply keep shining a continuous changing image slice of the object as we're pulling the object out of the resin.

What keeps the oxygen at the bottom of the tank? Why doesn't it diffuse upward and prevent curing? Why doesn't it get sucked upward and prevent curing? Are there limitations on the geometry needed to prevent oxygen from moving up?

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#67

Post by lsaferite »

lotsofmangos wrote: post #62
adventured wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed is a very big market impediment for 3D printing. You can't mass deploy printing kiosks at consumer stores if it takes four hours to make a mug or a trinket (you can, but it's absurd). If it takes five minutes you can and people will buy all sorts of custom products that way. Someone on Reddit mentioned it taking 20 hours to print half a skull. That's ridiculous. This will do it in probably 20 or 30 minutes, and…

20 hours to print a plastic skull you have just designed on a kit printer is still quick and cheap enough to feel amazing. Most small objects I do take about an hour or so and it is still cool to have drawn something and then go off and watch something on tv and come back to a working part. I agree that having a massive increase in speed is cool, but the materials range for UV cured stuff isn't that high. If we are t…

I know this is probably the wrong comment to hang this on, but I was just thinking about it reading your mixed mode comment.

I can see shipping container type units fitted internally with multiple 3D printer types that are basically little mobile factories. Any part you need (withing certain volume and material limitations) can be produced on demand. These could easily be transported to remote locations to fully support all kinds of activities.

I swear, I was born 100 years too early.

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#68

Post by phkahler »

andrewmb wrote: post #33

The website is pretty and the copy is tight, but it's nothing pathbreaking in terms of fundamental principles. This is just bottom-up UV-DLP SLA with a new twist: taking fuller advantage of oxygen permeable materials for the vat to eliminate the recoating step and get to continuous printing. A similar idea was tried, the ill-fated Solidator used a pressurized vat bottom with a permeable membrane. Though from what I k…

>> A similar idea was tried, the ill-fated Solidator used a pressurized vat bottom with a permeable membrane.

Sounds like prior art. Details matter of course.

Re: Carbon3D – 3D Printing via Continuous Liquid Interface Production

#70

Post by lotsofmangos »

lsaferite wrote: post #67
lotsofmangos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 hours to print a plastic skull you have just designed on a kit printer is still quick and cheap enough to feel amazing. Most small objects I do take about an hour or so and it is still cool to have drawn something and then go off and watch something on tv and come back to a working part. I agree that having a massive increase in speed is cool, but the materials range for UV cured stuff isn't that high. If we are t…

I know this is probably the wrong comment to hang this on, but I was just thinking about it reading your mixed mode comment. I can see shipping container type units fitted internally with multiple 3D printer types that are basically little mobile factories. Any part you need (withing certain volume and material limitations) can be produced on demand. These could easily be transported to remote locations to fully supp…

The game is, how small can you make a general engineering factory?

You could do the shipping container version now, using existing prototyping tech and some well thought out robots to move parts between processes.

I suspect you can get most of them in one box though, and this will be becoming mainstream within ten years to fifteen.

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