Show me the salary! • Hacker News Board

Re: Show me the salary!

#61

Post by MagicWishMonkey » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:08 PM UTC

fukupayme2 wrote: post #55

A big problem here in London is the willingness of big firms, especially financial ones to pay market rate in all conditions. An example: I work at an IB, doing Python/Quant development. We are presented with two candidates to interview. Candidate 1 is ok, has a year or two of Python but otherwise mostly Java background. Did so-so in the algo and numerical discussions, was ok in the problem solving categories. He was…

That's pretty ridiculous. I guess I don't feel bad about being less than honest when asked by a potential employer about my current salary. It's really none of their business.

Re: Show me the salary!

#62

Post by crdoconnor » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:08 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #45

crdoconnor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bull. It's about concealing from the people who are at the bottom of the range who don't deserve it. THAT'S an awkward conversation to have.

Sure, that's also awkward, but it doesn't alter the reality that many firms are perfectly happy with their existing employees, expect to fill positions with similar calibre candidates, but are prepared to pay a lot more for better.

This isn't particularly awkward.

Re: Show me the salary!

#63

Post by rmc » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:08 PM UTC

fukupayme2 wrote: post #55

A big problem here in London is the willingness of big firms, especially financial ones to pay market rate in all conditions. An example: I work at an IB, doing Python/Quant development. We are presented with two candidates to interview. Candidate 1 is ok, has a year or two of Python but otherwise mostly Java background. Did so-so in the algo and numerical discussions, was ok in the problem solving categories. He was…

This is why you shouldn't tell prospective employers your current salary.

Re: Show me the salary!

#64

Post by MagicWishMonkey » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:09 PM UTC

vkjv wrote: post #9

amelius wrote: post #5

I wonder what happens if test-engineer Bob finds out that there is a new job-opening for a test-engineer in his company, with a salary that is significantly higher than his own current salary.

He asks for his salary to be re-aligned with industry standards and in many cases they will oblige. In most cases, businesses are reasonable. They aren't going to volunteer to pay you more out of the goodness of their heart, but (most) of the time it doesn't hurt to ask. Just don't go threatening to leave if they don't.

If your company doesn't appreciate enough to pay you market rate unless you explicitly ask for it, you're better off finding a different employer.

Re: Show me the salary!

#65

Post by Silhouette » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:10 PM UTC

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #12

I've got a handful of general rules around salary that tell me not to apply for certain jobs: - I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us. I get that the employer may not be willing to pay what I want based on my experience, etc,…

I don't apply to jobs that don't list a salary range. This is a red flag that tells me that the employer doesn't have the budget to pay market rates and that applying and interviewing could be a colossal waste of time for both of us.

This one also has an evil sibling: you say something meaningless like "Salary: Competitive" and then when an applicant turns up to interview, you ask them what they're currently on. I see absolutely no reason, from the candidate's point of view, that discussing current compensation with a prospective future employer would ever work in your favour.

Worst case (edit: for not disclosing your current deal) is that the manager/HR drone stick to their guns and won't move the discussion on before you give a number, in which case you know what kind of employer you're dealing with and can decide to leave the interview early if your interest in working with them has faded.

Re: Show me the salary!

#66

Post by rmc » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:11 PM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #22

e-dard wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then have a range? Of course you need to pay different employees different salaries, but that doesn't mean you can't expose potential employees to the salary they might expect to earn.

Because if you can afford to stretch your range up to attract an elite candidate you will do. Explaining to people who are perfectly well qualified for the job including your own existing employees why they're at the bottom of the range is an uncomfortable conversation... much more uncomfortable than explaining why an actually-hired elite candidate whose been given additional responsibilities earns 50% more salary.

> Explaining to people who are perfectly well qualified for the job including your own existing employees why they're at the bottom of the range is an uncomfortable conversation

I would imagine having to explain to your employees why you're underpaying them is a difficult conversation. But the problem is that's the employee's know, the problem is that you're underpaying them.

Re: Show me the salary!

#67

Post by fukupayme2 » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:11 PM UTC

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #61

fukupayme2 wrote: post #55

A big problem here in London is the willingness of big firms, especially financial ones to pay market rate in all conditions. An example: I work at an IB, doing Python/Quant development. We are presented with two candidates to interview. Candidate 1 is ok, has a year or two of Python but otherwise mostly Java background. Did so-so in the algo and numerical discussions, was ok in the problem solving categories. He was…

That's pretty ridiculous. I guess I don't feel bad about being less than honest when asked by a potential employer about my current salary. It's really none of their business.

It can get worse - I know of people who have been asked by the IB to prove their current salary/bonus levels, to avoid inflation or overstated earnings. They do also verify via the P45 as well.

Best bet is to join one, if you have to, from a contractor route. Then you have an advantage, as they know you are most likely on a higher rate and are not willing to muck around with the usual HR demands.

Re: Show me the salary!

#68

Post by aquadrop » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:12 PM UTC

fukupayme2 wrote: post #55

A big problem here in London is the willingness of big firms, especially financial ones to pay market rate in all conditions. An example: I work at an IB, doing Python/Quant development. We are presented with two candidates to interview. Candidate 1 is ok, has a year or two of Python but otherwise mostly Java background. Did so-so in the algo and numerical discussions, was ok in the problem solving categories. He was…

How HR knew about their current salary? Did they tell it themselves? Cause it's clearly not beneficial.

Re: Show me the salary!

#69

Post by rmc » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:13 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #37

This one bugs me "Recruiter: “Why don’t you tell me how much you think you’re worth?”" Well... what I'm worth to a company depends a whole hell of a lot on how good they are operationally. Company A may be able to extract $500k of value per year from my skills. Company B may only be able to extract $80k of value from my skills. What am I "worth"? It's largely dependent on the environment I'm operating in, and how goo…

> "Recruiter: “Why don’t you tell me how much you think you’re worth?”"

My response: You're the recruiter. You should know more about this company, the industry in general, the industry in this city, current skills, etc than me. It's your job to know what I'm worth.

Re: Show me the salary!

#70

Post by wallflower » Thu, Feb 26, 2015, 3:13 PM UTC

It is all about the employer maintaining the power in salary setting.

Think of airlines. In the handful of times, I've asked how much people have paid for their seat. I've gotten ranges of a couple hundred dollars in both directions for a cross-country flight. Some of it was when the ticket was bought. And I thought I was getting a deal on Priceline...

There are always disparities in salary. The most glaring and entrenched - being that of males and females of near equivalency being paid different amounts.

If all salaries were made public, you would have to equalize salaries to prevent the fomenting dissension.

This can be done at smaller organizations. For larger organizations (think Fortune 500), the higher-ups could not keep their larger salaries because a) they would not be able to justify them (as much) and b) their larger salaries may have been largely due to 'taking a larger share of the pot'.