Node v0.12.0 (Stable) • Hacker News Board

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#61

Post by oso2k » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 5:18 AM UTC

0xFFC wrote: post #44

Touche wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience has been that just about every module that uses native code (there are more than you think) doesn't work in IO.js because of the changes to the V8 apis. So until all of those are updated to work with both I'll have to stick to Node.

I am neither side of this fight , Can you explain what is this V8 api story ? seems this is root of all fight in *.js community

3.24.x represents a significant departure from previous v8 APIs. Specifically, the v8 team moved from what I would term, 2nd Generation VM Primitives to 3rd Generation VM Primitives, including 2nd Gen Isolates, GC changes, UTF8/ASCII changes, and other siginificant API changes, in December 2013). Details can be found here [0] in the v8 team's "Design Doc Tracker". Up until late 0.11.x series, nodejs was based on v8 3.14.x, whose last commit by the v8 team was in May 2013, nearly two years ago. Needless to say, there were many changes/optimizations it was lacking. And even if they were to base nodejs on the latest 3.28.x (3.28.73), its last commit was August 2014, 6 months old. It seems odd to me, that they made the effort to get to 3.28.x but didn't go past 3.29.x because of the i18n changes v8 introduced. It's really easy to exclude that stuff if you don't want to deal with it. Bonehead move in my opinion.

[0] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g8JFi8T_oAE_7uAri7Njtig7...

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#62

Post by Kiro » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 5:59 AM UTC

wereHamster wrote: post #2

No mention which version of V8 they use. Did they sync with what Chrome is using nowadays? Anyways, I've already switched to iojs. I'm sharing part of my code between server and client and it has become increasingly painful to work around the lack of progress on the nodejs side of the network.

> I'm sharing part of my code between server and client

How? And why is it a problem with node but not iojss?

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#63

Post by inglor » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 7:39 AM UTC

kolev wrote: post #47

Competition at its best! Days after io.js gets released, node.js outs a major release.

With a year and a half old engine, worse performance and none of the new language features like generators :D

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#64

Post by coldtea » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 8:12 AM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #19

antouank wrote: post #8

Meh, too late. io.js is the standard now.

Not sure if this is a joke, but assuming it's not - it's the standard now, and it's been out for... 2 whole months?!

What does the time it's "been out" has to do with anything?

For one, it's a fork, not a new product -- so it carries all the old development from node.

Second, it got all the best contributors from the node community.

So, while it might not be a standard yet in numbers, it's very well poised to be.

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#65

Post by coldtea » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 8:16 AM UTC

btbuildem wrote: post #49

I would just like to point out people are running production stuff on v0.x of something..

"People" including major companies with huge teams of dev-ops.

It's not like 0.x universally means "not production ready" and you know better to school them.

The version number only has a meaning within the culture of a specific project. For node, they decided to keep using the 0.x release number long after the product was mature for production use.

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#66

Post by maratd » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 8:31 AM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #62

wereHamster wrote: post #2

No mention which version of V8 they use. Did they sync with what Chrome is using nowadays? Anyways, I've already switched to iojs. I'm sharing part of my code between server and client and it has become increasingly painful to work around the lack of progress on the nodejs side of the network.

> I'm sharing part of my code between server and client How? And why is it a problem with node but not iojss?

You can easily use the same framework both on the server and client, especially a general purpose one. Makes life easier.

io.js uses the current version of V8. node uses an outdated one.

Makes life easier if your code is being executed in the same engine, with the same version. Everything that works in one, works on the other.

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#67

Post by kevsim » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 8:53 AM UTC

sync wrote: post #34

sync wrote: post #13

So can I use generators without a --harmony-generators flag now? Surprised there aren't any mentions of ES6 in the blog, considering the competition from io.js.

Answering my own question: nope!

This is by far the most disappointing bit of the release for me. Catch up with the V8 releases already!

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#68

Post by fnordsensei » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 9:20 AM UTC

shna wrote: post #57

It's been 5 years since node.js is around? is node.js development slow or the version numbers (scheme) is progressing slow. It sounds like there is at least a decade for ver 1.0. Probably 1.0 does not mean anything. In my mind version 1.0 is the when the product is complete.

Don't stare yourself blind at version numbers, they're just a way to distinguish one version from another.

Open source projects generally don't follow the same versioning conventions as closed source projects, as they don't require you to fork over money for each sharp version.

Also, software can rarely ever be said to be "complete", even theoretically. Only very small programs can be written once and be said to fulfil their purpose from then on. For larger programs and systems, the needs and requirements is usually something you try to approximate with ever increasing precision. But usually needs and requirements is a moving target as well, making this task perpetual.

This conspires to make 1.0 more of a marketing decision than to map to any real "completeness". I've seen whole program rewrites in a 0.01 change of an open source project. Similarly I've seen projects bumped to 1.0 with very little ceremony simply because it's been used in production for 8 years now, and why the hell not?

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#69

Post by fapjacks » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 9:25 AM UTC

fnordsensei wrote: post #68

shna wrote: post #57

It's been 5 years since node.js is around? is node.js development slow or the version numbers (scheme) is progressing slow. It sounds like there is at least a decade for ver 1.0. Probably 1.0 does not mean anything. In my mind version 1.0 is the when the product is complete.

Don't stare yourself blind at version numbers, they're just a way to distinguish one version from another. Open source projects generally don't follow the same versioning conventions as closed source projects, as they don't require you to fork over money for each sharp version. Also, software can rarely ever be said to be "complete", even theoretically. Only very small programs can be written once and be said to fulf…

I actually looked but couldn't find it in my links, but out there on the internet somewhere is an interesting marketing study showing how profoundly more likely people are to pay for software that is versioned at least 1.0. All of my personal projects are 0.x.x, rarely making it to 1.0. Meanwhile, my business projects rarely start under 1.0.

Re: Node v0.12.0 (Stable)

#70

Post by z3t4 » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 10:03 AM UTC

bcantrill wrote: post #16

Several have asked about node.js in contrast to io.js. It's fair to say that the emphasis of node.js at this point is on stability (including API stability, production debuggability/observability, etc.) and performance -- in that order. It definitely takes longer to release software when operating under these constraints; as the team writes in the linked blog entry: We are also pleased to report that this release of…

Most people will appreciate stability more then language features. I'm a bit surprised about some of the comments here.