UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’ • Hacker News Board

Re: UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’

#61

Post by mercer » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 6:48 PM UTC

PlzSnow wrote: post #42

matthewmacleod wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy theorist me says we should expect another "act of terrorism" on the UK mainland. This government needs to bolster its control, as they did in Australia, France and Canada. After every attack, the direct effect is that politicians start looking for ways to spin that into invasions of privacy and liberty. Every god damn time. I appreciate that you prefixed this, but are you really implying that the recent at…

"are you really implying that the recent attacks in France were planned by the government? Or that the 7/7 bombings in London were?" Welcome to Hacker New, where a sizeable proportion of the readership actually believe this stuff . Also, the NSA read and store everything you do on the Internet. However, the discussions on technology issues are of a very high standard, which is why many of us are here.

Much as I'm skeptical of many conspiracy 'types', I think dismissing them in such a facile manner is just stupid, especially if it's true that 'a sizeable proportion of the readership believe it'. If the latter is true, at least it's worth respecting that fact, rather than dismissing it as 'obviously ridiculous'.

Re: UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’

#62

Post by LunaSea » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 6:49 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #40

mike_hearn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ruling is issued by a kangaroo court that isn't like a normal court, and the "law" in this case says that GCHQ can do pretty much whatever it likes. So I'm afraid this stuff moved outside the realm of law and democracy a long time ago.

> and the "law" in this case says that GCHQ can do pretty much whatever it likes. No it doesn't! Oversight might have failed but there are laws and GCHQ are expected to obey those laws.

Oh well if it's just the oversight of on of the most powerful agencies that failed for a measly seven years then everything is fine.

Watch as nothing changes.

Re: UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’

#63

Post by PlzSnow » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 7:38 PM UTC

mercer wrote: post #61

PlzSnow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"are you really implying that the recent attacks in France were planned by the government? Or that the 7/7 bombings in London were?" Welcome to Hacker New, where a sizeable proportion of the readership actually believe this stuff . Also, the NSA read and store everything you do on the Internet. However, the discussions on technology issues are of a very high standard, which is why many of us are here.

Much as I'm skeptical of many conspiracy 'types', I think dismissing them in such a facile manner is just stupid, especially if it's true that 'a sizeable proportion of the readership believe it'. If the latter is true, at least it's worth respecting that fact, rather than dismissing it as 'obviously ridiculous'.

"it's worth respecting that fact, rather than dismissing it as 'obviously ridiculous'"

That's not how the world works. If someone says "I think the government did 9/11", then it doesn't matter how many people agree with him. His opinion is still idiotic.

Similarly I do not have to respect anti-vaxers or Scientologists, just because there are many of them.

Re: UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’

#64

Post by mercer » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 8:02 PM UTC

PlzSnow wrote: post #63

mercer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much as I'm skeptical of many conspiracy 'types', I think dismissing them in such a facile manner is just stupid, especially if it's true that 'a sizeable proportion of the readership believe it'. If the latter is true, at least it's worth respecting that fact, rather than dismissing it as 'obviously ridiculous'.

"it's worth respecting that fact, rather than dismissing it as 'obviously ridiculous'" That's not how the world works. If someone says "I think the government did 9/11", then it doesn't matter how many people agree with him. His opinion is still idiotic. Similarly I do not have to respect anti-vaxers or Scientologists, just because there are many of them.

So you're saying no matter who says it in whatever demographic, you've made up your mind about this issue and that's that? If so, I pity your closed-mindedness, and I think we can't have a productive conversation.

(to be clear, I'm highly skeptical of overt conspiracies in general. But if a significant portion of my peers (HN readers) believe a thing, at the very least I try to seriously consider their point of view. Because I'm not infallible. Apparently you are?)

Re: UK-US surveillance regime was unlawful ‘for seven years’

#65

Post by PlzSnow » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 8:28 PM UTC

mercer wrote: post #64

PlzSnow wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's worth respecting that fact, rather than dismissing it as 'obviously ridiculous'" That's not how the world works. If someone says "I think the government did 9/11", then it doesn't matter how many people agree with him. His opinion is still idiotic. Similarly I do not have to respect anti-vaxers or Scientologists, just because there are many of them.

So you're saying no matter who says it in whatever demographic, you've made up your mind about this issue and that's that? If so, I pity your closed-mindedness, and I think we can't have a productive conversation. (to be clear, I'm highly skeptical of overt conspiracies in general. But if a significant portion of my peers (HN readers) believe a thing, at the very least I try to seriously consider their point of view.…

"I pity your closed-mindedness"

This is the main fallacy of the conspiracy theorist, that those who reject the absurd conspiracy have closed minds.

For more on this, see here: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/answering-consp...