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Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

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Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC isn't run by the government, it's run by the state.

U.S. citizen here—what's the difference?

TL;DR "run by the state" = run by the executive appointed by the trust appointed by the monarch.

The government doesn't have direct operational control. The BBC executive is appointed by the BBC Trust. Trustees are appointed by the monarch in accordance with the recommendations of the government. So, beyond the selection of the trustees, the BBC is independent of government.

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC isn't run by the government, it's run by the state.

U.S. citizen here—what's the difference?

That is to say, the BBC is supposed to be run for the benefit of the United Kingdom and its citizens, not for the benefit of whoever happens to be the elected leader at the moment.

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#63
post #10

Allow me to ask what I'm certain is an incredibly naive question, so please bear with me. But it's a question that the average / non-tech folks ARE asking, and I'm not looking to be attacked, I'm looking for an intelligent answer (or corrections if my assumptions are wrong.) Base scenario: We have adversaries. Our adversaries are plotting something objectively bad - to blow up things and kill innocent people. They ar…

There are four basic lines of argument:

- legal. It's against the law; there are strong 1st and 4th arguments against surveillance, and 5th and 6th amendment arguments as well. Some people have even tried to argue that if encryption is a munition the 2nd amendment applies. The "we could stop bad people" argument applies especially to the 4th.

Similar legal protections exist in Europe, although not generally as strong.

- practical: either a system is secure or it isn't. Handing it over to anyone increases the risk of compromise. Bans on effective encryption are self-defeating.

- collateral damage: US intelligence agencies have a track record of killing innocent people themselves (e.g. drone strikes), supporting murderous governments (CIA in south america), funding terrorism and failing to prosecute the guilty (Iran-contra), use of intelligence for domestic immoral politics (Watergate, FBI vs MLK). Handing over data about your e.g. Chilean users to the CIA may result in them being murdered.

- international hypocrisy: saying that mass surveillance is OK says it's OK for other governments too. Do you support Chinese interception against their adversaries? Are you happy to turn over your entire email history on entering a country?

- finally, I'm going to question how much it does help. The Paris terrorists were known to the police, as was the killer of Lee Rigby. Intercept evidence is generally not used in trials. Nobody is presenting a cache of encrypted emails found on a computer used by the Parisian terrorists and saying "if we'd decrypted this we could have prevented it".

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#65
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B.B.C. used Anti terror Laws to catch license fee dodgers http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northe...

For American: these are people who don't pay a mandatory tax for consuming government-run media like the BBC and Channel 4 (perhaps because the don't watch or listen to that content).

Sounds like Japan's NHK totally-not-a-tax fee.

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#66
post #18
post #5

George Orwell's 1984 should be a required reading for high school students. Not just in the U.S., but world wide. It really highlights just what dangers come from the idea that you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide, and the sheer amount of power and influence a global, instantaneous, and always on intelligence network can have over the population.

Reality isn't 1984. Reality also isn't Brave New World (and we're amusing ourselves to death). It's bits and pieces of both of these and much more. So yes, reading 1984 is beneficial. Only reading 1984 is not.

I don't follow the reasoning. Obviously none of these works are going to perfectly reflect everything about our current reality; that's not the idea. The idea is to think critically about what's actually going on around you, and these stories can be a lens through which to look at your situation.

"Only reading 1984 is not" helpful? I definitely do not agree. Reading at least one of these works at least provides the opportunity to consider its relevance. Reading none of them trivially throws out that potential benefit.

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#67
post #6

What if Google says, "no"? What if they choose to implement a service that they don't have keys to?

They will force them to create a backdoor. Just like they did with Microsoft's products.

They have offices in other country, e.g., Switzerland. Couldn't they avoid having to create backdoors by running the service in question from there?

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#68
This is absolutely terrifying. You can't use "the way things currently are" to argue for giving governments access to personal data. You have to think about, and protect "the way things might end up". How easy do you want to make it for corrupt government leaders to suppress opposition?

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#69
post #46
post #10

Allow me to ask what I'm certain is an incredibly naive question, so please bear with me. But it's a question that the average / non-tech folks ARE asking, and I'm not looking to be attacked, I'm looking for an intelligent answer (or corrections if my assumptions are wrong.) Base scenario: We have adversaries. Our adversaries are plotting something objectively bad - to blow up things and kill innocent people. They ar…

I find it works best to use something the "Average/non-tech" person will surely understand: "What if there were cameras in your house that recorded everything you did & said, but the government promised you the footage would only be reviewed in the case that they suspect you committed a crime. How would you feel about that?" I've gotten a lot of mileage from this metaphor myself. The response is usually silence while…

I might start responding with:

"Oh, I think it will be a great idea. The government will see how good of a citizen I am and how much I learn on my own, and perhaps, if I'm lucky, they'll give me a job so that I can stop cooking the rats in my walls."

Re: Obama Sides with Cameron in Encryption Fight

#70
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality isn't 1984. Reality also isn't Brave New World (and we're amusing ourselves to death). It's bits and pieces of both of these and much more. So yes, reading 1984 is beneficial. Only reading 1984 is not.

I don't follow the reasoning. Obviously none of these works are going to perfectly reflect everything about our current reality; that's not the idea. The idea is to think critically about what's actually going on around you, and these stories can be a lens through which to look at your situation. "Only reading 1984 is not" helpful? I definitely do not agree. Reading at least one of these works at least provides the o…

The person appeared to be advocating real world action based on the contents of a fictional novel. Sure, it is a fact that the story exists and is interesting. That doesn't mean that it prescribes a particular action for people to take in the real world. Anything can happen in a fiction story, but as far as we can tell, the real world is not fiction and is limited in what can happen. This means that it is potentially very dangerous to take actions based on the events of a fictional story, as there is no guarantee (or even a good reason) to believe that the real world operates in the same fashion as any particular fictional world.
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