Can't you just turn up the volume? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#61

Post by ics » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:28 AM UTC

soperj wrote: post #17

ics wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any scenario where you'd want to use the speaker phone has little to do with noise. Sometimes I want it while driving because I don't have a headset (and don't plan on getting one, since I don't own a car and drive rarely). Or in the shop while drilling, soldering, or whatever. Or outside working on something. It's about using the phone while doing something else, often something that you couldn't do with something b…

Seriously.. just don't talk while driving. It's dangerous for everyone.

I would love to not talk while driving. I would also like to not listen while driving. In fact, I would like to not drive while driving! That being said, I'm much less concerned about spending a minute talking to a dispatcher than the guy/gal flying down I-95 while breaking up with someone over the phone. (Speaking of which, at least with a phone you can hang up... but some passengers, man...)

Edit: I would also posit that in some cases, a short phone call can actually do a great deal to remove distraction if it is a settleable matter. The conversation you have in your head while driving may be just as bad as the one you'd have on the phone, except that it may dwell longer.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#62

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:35 AM UTC

chias wrote: post #20

a2kadet wrote: post #6

> "Sound expresses itself in three dimensions: time (seconds), volume (decibels) and frequency (Hertz)." Is anyone else as irked about the authors choice of the word dimensions as much as I am? I can't read past it. Wouldn't "factors" be a better fit?

Not really. A sound can be described by a one or more [time, volume, frequency] triples. I think the author's use of the word "dimensions" is perfectly suited.

Frequency is just periodic variation in volume so it doesn't really belong on that list as if it's a separate thing and not an emergent property

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#63

Post by roberthahn » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:39 AM UTC

Dwolb wrote: post #31

analog31 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that a simple way to eliminate the feedback issue is to separate the microphone from the speaker. Hearing loss runs in my family, so I've watched my relatives struggle with hearing aids, and I've decided that when it's time for me: 1) I will build it myself and figure out the details, to hell with the audiologists and their racket. 2. I will carry the microphone and amplifier in my shirt pocket. No mor…

I'm not a hearing aid expert but the microphone and earpiece may currently be tightly coupled because it has to be. That is, human ears are very sensitive to phase shifts and time delays. Placing the microphone in a location that is not your ear may throw off your hearing somewhat (possibly ability to locate from where a sound originated).

I can vouch for this. I used to have an FM system - this is a mic that transmits on a very specific FM frequency to a receiver that's paired with my hearing aids. I loved it because I could easily use it to hear people near me in loud rooms, but it sucked in meeting rooms. The reason why is that I would hear someone speaking through my hearing aids and through the mic - at slightly different times. This is the phase shift Dwolb speaks of. This reduced clarity significantly.

That said, if analog31 wants to wear the mic on his shirt, that distance is actually good enough for most 1 to 1 conversations. Just understand that you're trading off "spatial perception" (no left/right balance if only one mic).

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#64

Post by rtpg » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:53 AM UTC

larrybolt wrote: post #2

This was an interesting read, but what to me personally is more interesting is how to prevent hearing loss over the years. I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. A dynamic headphones, such as the good old Superlux HD 681 would be "better" in the long term. (Not trying to advertise for that headphone, it's ju…

I remember with a pair of earbuds getting a little informational thing on the correct volume.

Their rule of thumb is if you are incapable of hearing and understanding what people are telling you without taking out your earbuds, they're too loud.

I tried this out, and found that I'm actually fine with the volume bar being maybe 30% of what I used to. Basically, put your earbuds in, play some music, and try to talk to someone. If you're unable to then you might be playing your music way too loud.

(For people using earbuds to drown workplace noise out, I'd suggest an ambient noise program like noiz.io. You can train your brain to filter ambient background noise, and its better than trying to 1-up the sounds in your office)

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#65

Post by marquis » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:53 AM UTC

While I appreciate the article, having hearing loss is not like losing context of an image such as not being able to see the bear on the tricycle. It's more like the image is fuzzy and depending on the factor of loss, it might be a bear or it might just be some fuzz:

http://i.imgur.com/vKn7oTf.png

Audio compression, especially when using psychoacoustic principles, helps by lowering the noise of the unwanted sounds e.g "probably not a human voice" or "not a bear" in this case and increasing certain frequencies for a person's particular hearing range so they can "see" the image better.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#66

Post by curun1r » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 1:57 AM UTC

zenocon wrote: post #5

"Why can't I just turn up the volume on my iPhone?" is something I ask myself everyday and shake my fist toward Cupertino. Seriously, the gain on the phone is severely limited. Try listening to a voice call on speakerphone in even a moderately quiet environment with just a twee bit of ambient noise. It is maddening that I can't get any more volume out of this device without jailbreaking it.

If you're looking for someone to blame, I highly recommend the guy that sued Apple because the iPod could be loud enough to cause hearing damage:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/7bf03be0-94de-11da-9f39-00007...

Apple eventually won and the case was dismissed, but the lower maximum value followed from that lawsuit.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#67

Post by roberthahn » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:01 AM UTC

Interesting article. Thanks for posting, varunsrin! I've been following development of SoundFocus for awhile.

I'm profoundly deaf. This is a technical term classifying the degree of hearing loss; to give you a sense of where this fits, the typical classification range is mild, moderate, severe, profound, total.

Between a combination of hearing aids and lip-reading, I've done a reasonable job of integrating into a hearing society. Not perfect, but ok.

I've often wished for a different approach to correcting hearing. It crystallized for me after I read this article by Jon Udell: http://blog.jonudell.net/2014/12/09/why-shouting-wont-help-y...

In that article, what Jon found was that his mom would hear best if you spoke at a low to medium volume close to her ear - this worked better than any shouting at a greater distance could accomplish.

And it should be easy for you to simulate - get a friend to talk to you from 50' away - you can still hear them, but there's some detail loss that wouldn't happen if they're 3' away.

I still benefit - a lot - from MBC, but if someone could come up with a way to make the incoming sound sound as if it were right beside me, man, that would really help me understand people clearly.

One non-technical solution, that people use to ensure that deaf people can understand you clearly is to enunciate consonants audibly. An example of this is is the word "red" - it becomes "erREDdead". I don't know if there's a name for this so I can't point you to a page describing how to extra-enunciate all the letters. As useful as it is, people speaking to me like that always makes me feel like I'm dumb, because they sound dumb saying it. Clearly I have issues :-)

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#68

Post by markrages » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:05 AM UTC

bashinator wrote: post #45

Anechoic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. The issue isn't necessarily about all "earbuds," the issue is that many earbuds (including the ones included with Apple iOS products) don't seal the ear canal very well, so a listener is exposed to outside sounds in addition to sounds from the player. Since the outside…

Exactly. With my Etymotics in-canal buds, I can set the volume on my music player to about 25-30%. With the stock buds or even non-isolating over-the-ear headphones, the same subjective loudness requires about 60-75% on the volume control.

This is not a good measure, because different earphones have different efficiencies.

And the type of earphone changes the efficiency as well: The sound from the Etymotics all goes to your ear, but the others waste some sound out of your ear.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#69

Post by dlandis » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:12 AM UTC

> If you know people who have hearing loss, you’ve noticed that they can’t tolerate loud noises that you’re fine with, but they also can’t hear some of things that you can hear perfectly well.

So what is the explanation of why they can't tolerate certain loud noises? I feel like the article was going to address that aspect of hearing loss as well but never did.

Re: Can't you just turn up the volume?

#70

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jan 08, 2015, 2:18 AM UTC

larrybolt wrote: post #2

This was an interesting read, but what to me personally is more interesting is how to prevent hearing loss over the years. I might be wrong on this, but I recall a hearing specialist advising me not to use earbuds at all, or at least limit the use to max 1 hour at a time. A dynamic headphones, such as the good old Superlux HD 681 would be "better" in the long term. (Not trying to advertise for that headphone, it's ju…

I've lost hearing in my left ear, and I'm pretty sure it's due to years of driving with the window down.