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How Paul Graham Is Wrong

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Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#61

Post by ergo14 »

jasode wrote: post #38

>Use WordPress and P2, use Slack, use G+ Hangouts, use Skype, use any of the amazing technology that allows us to collaborate as effectively online as previous generations of company did offline. I've been a 100% remote worker for 5+ years but I think we have to be honest here. All those teleconferencing/videoconferencing/virtualwhiteboards/etc are not as effective as everyone sharing the same physical workspace. Yes…

> A lot of startups have ambitious goals and very hard technical challenges and you can't compete with a team made up of 99% remote workers

Sorry, this just isn't true, the IT team in my old place was 100% remote (there were sales and marketing in local office), and we had very big growth and success solving quite a few technical problems scaling the business for millions of users. It's more of recruiting people with right skills and right mindset. After scrums/whatever we spend 90% of our time solving the problems - being on site doesn't really help unless you do do some specific R&D that requires constant team consultation - which 99.99% of startups here DON'T do.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#62

Post by lsaferite »

ryanSrich wrote: post #30
untothebreach wrote: post #15

So much this. I have pretty much stopped clicking on the HN posts from HN companies looking for employees, because almost none of them offer remote work. Which is too bad, because there are quite a few HN companies that I would love to work for.

I highly suspect that it's a consequence of being a YC company. The president of YC has even publicly denounced allowing remote work. > As a side note, avoid remote employees in the early days. As a culture is still gelling, it’s important to have everyone in the same building. [1] 1. http://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-hire

Seems like setting yourself up to have an 'everyone is remote' culture at that point in time would make the most sense.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#63

Post by kartikkumar »

For argument's sake, if remote work isn't the solution, how about taking the middle ground? I don't see a lot of companies setting up offices in other parts of the world until much later on the growth curve. Is there a fundamental reason for this? Is it simply cost? Seems to me that SV companies can do great things by even opening up 2-3 person shops elsewhere in the world. You then have the compromise situation of having a few people collocated, which should cut down the need to continuous remote meetings, and at the same time provide simultaneous access to new growth markets. In effect, you have remote offices as opposed to remote employees, which seems like a much more efficient organization of resources.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#64

Post by dang »

The article assumes its conclusion:

> amazing technology that allows us to collaborate as effectively online as previous generations of company did offline

That's a huge claim, and it's disputable. For example, I've worked both ways a lot and find remote work to be dramatically less effective.

If you accept the claim, then sure, the startups PG was writing about are missing the obvious, and for the most ironic of reasons—technical backwardness. That's possible. But there's also a lot of wishful thinking and saying-makes-it-so on this subject, which comes up on HN all the time. A lot of people just really, really want this to be true. That alone doesn't make it true, and I think it's at least as possible that desire is distorting the analysis. (Which, as someone whose whole career has been plagued by an unsolvable constraint problem of family, work, and geography, I can easily understand.)

Fortunately, we're going to find out. If all those startups are doing it wrong, then there's a gigantic market inefficiency and we'll soon see a new wave of smarter, less backward companies doing much better.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#65

Post by mgkimsal »

wavefunction wrote: post #31
smtddr wrote: post #8

I am still convinced that before anyone can confidently determine if a talent shortage really exists, they must first fix the transportation issues. I've made this comment a few times already, but if I had a magic wand and made a BART-like bullet train materialize that connected San Francisco to San Jose, Danville, San Ramon, Mountain View, Palo alto, Cupertino, Foster City, the "out-of-reach"'ish areas of SF like wh…

I don't know if I'm one of the great engineers PG and others are talking about but I have no interest in living in the Bay area, whether as it currently exists or with even more people. You can solve the "transportation" issue by avoiding having to transport anyone in the first place, which is exactly what the author is speaking to when they suggest remote working arrangements.

Or maybe even transporting some of those opportunities to areas closer to you. Starting new VC-backed companies in Detroit, Denver, Boston, Durham, Austin, Memphis, Nashville, Louisville or other regions would give you access to some great talent that simply prefers to live in other areas of the country.

For an industry that often derides 'monoculture', the SF tech scene sure resembles one.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#66

Post by rebelidealist »

jasode wrote: post #38

>Use WordPress and P2, use Slack, use G+ Hangouts, use Skype, use any of the amazing technology that allows us to collaborate as effectively online as previous generations of company did offline. I've been a 100% remote worker for 5+ years but I think we have to be honest here. All those teleconferencing/videoconferencing/virtualwhiteboards/etc are not as effective as everyone sharing the same physical workspace. Yes…

Github was valued at $750mil in 2012, should be worth a whole lot more now.

Basecamp, has not gotten outside valuation for a long time, but they are just as if not popular that Asana who was valued at $280mm back in 2012.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#67

Post by henrik_w »

jasode wrote: post #38

>Use WordPress and P2, use Slack, use G+ Hangouts, use Skype, use any of the amazing technology that allows us to collaborate as effectively online as previous generations of company did offline. I've been a 100% remote worker for 5+ years but I think we have to be honest here. All those teleconferencing/videoconferencing/virtualwhiteboards/etc are not as effective as everyone sharing the same physical workspace. Yes…

Yes, it's a matter of how much the team gets done, not only how much you personally get done. I used exactly this example in "Programmer Productivity – Interruptions, Meetings and Working Remotely" http://henrikwarne.com/2013/04/02/programmer-productivity-in...

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#68

Post by ryanSrich »

lsaferite wrote: post #62
ryanSrich wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly suspect that it's a consequence of being a YC company. The president of YC has even publicly denounced allowing remote work. > As a side note, avoid remote employees in the early days. As a culture is still gelling, it’s important to have everyone in the same building. [1] 1. http://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-hire

Seems like setting yourself up to have an 'everyone is remote' culture at that point in time would make the most sense.

That makes the most sense to me as well. If you're planning on having a distributed team, doing it early on is the best, and perhaps the only, time to do it.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#69

Post by ha292 »

drawkbox wrote: post #32

Programmers, if they have a choice, like remote or at least some remote. Managers + VCs, if they have a choice, prefer all in the office so they can keep power but this actually makes them less competitive and more susceptible to physical disruptions: moving an office, an employee moving, time, office politics, commute, distractions, over meeting and more. The PG essay on this was glaringly overlooking that you can b…

I'd add that the PG post is a symptom of a disease. A disease that that is brewing in the echo-chambers of SV. Note also the recent post where PG claims that "mean people fail".

The more the VC community gets un-hinged from the reality the quicker the inflation of the bubble and the crazier the assertions.

Time to get out of the bubble.

Re: How Paul Graham Is Wrong

#70

Post by walshemj »

jasode wrote: post #38

>Use WordPress and P2, use Slack, use G+ Hangouts, use Skype, use any of the amazing technology that allows us to collaborate as effectively online as previous generations of company did offline. I've been a 100% remote worker for 5+ years but I think we have to be honest here. All those teleconferencing/videoconferencing/virtualwhiteboards/etc are not as effective as everyone sharing the same physical workspace. Yes…

Yep its buying into the hype of teleconferencing that the Big Telcos sell to the CEO on the Golf course. The REAL point here is to build software you need teams that work well together not a bunch of solo contributors
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