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Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

cheapair.com

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Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#61

Post by Avenger42 »

izacus wrote: post #35
spdustin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. As much as I loathe handing over my money to airlines - an experience I sometimes have to face three times a month - they are a for-profit commercial enterprise with no requirements for how they operate beyond government-imposed ones. Want something legitimate to complain about when thinking of flying the friendly skies? Think about the airlines whining about the…

> To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. I see this argument a lot of time but I still don't really know how exactly that redeems companies bad business practices and user hostility. What is the purpose of this argument? Saying that it's ok? If not, what else? Also, what is the alternative? Use a cargo ship over seas? Choose from another 5 companies with same crappy business practices?

> Also, what is the alternative? Use a cargo ship over seas? Choose from another 5 companies with same crappy business practices?

It depends on where you're going. If it's an overseas trip, you could video conference or telecommute. If it's not, you could drive yourself or take a bus.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#62

Post by trjordan »

zrail wrote: post #26

Southwest, as far as I can tell, doesn't change rates once they've published. Three rate tiers, optional early check-in to get a better boarding order position, and free baggage. The most striking difference is that, in general, the flight attendants are happy . They smile. They joke around. Sometimes they sing songs. I was on a flight a few months ago where the entire plane played a game because it was someone's bir…

They definitely change prices based on time. I've seen hikes around the 21 / 14 / 7-day marks from a flight, as well as longer-term changes for flights around Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#63

Post by michaelochurch »

leoedin wrote: post #58
lizzard wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disabled people do not have to buy first class tickets. I am disabled, and often am seated in the very back of the airplane. There is a narrow aisle chair (a very skinny wheelchair) to help people get into the plane and through a plane's aisles. Airline agents at the gate often nicely switch my seats closer to the front of the plane, but not to first class. You are claiming some things that absolutely aren't true, he…

I don't think the comment author claimed that disabled people have to travel first class, but that some people with disabilities choose to travel business or first class because travelling in economy is too painful / not practical.

Right. I wasn't saying that everyone with a disability had to travel first class. There are various different kinds of disability.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#64

Post by exelius »

Someone1234 wrote: post #32
spdustin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. As much as I loathe handing over my money to airlines - an experience I sometimes have to face three times a month - they are a for-profit commercial enterprise with no requirements for how they operate beyond government-imposed ones. Want something legitimate to complain about when thinking of flying the friendly skies? Think about the airlines whining about the…

There should be a government imposed minimum seat pitch. The current distance between the back of one seat and the front of another is too small for the top 10% in terms of height of the population, disabled people, and older people. Then airlines cannot use "competition" to argue why they should make seats smaller and smaller, as all competition would have to adapt also. I don't care if they're a private business. T…

> I don't care if they're a private business. That means nothing to me. When all airlines have the same tiny seats and no alternative that isn't 5-10x more expensive, that is collusion, not competition.

It's not collusion, because air travel is effectively a commoditized market. That means there is continuous downward pressure on pricing exactly because the product is nearly identical everywhere. It is a zero-sum game though with regards to seat size. I don't think they can realistically go much smaller though; as a person of average height (5'7") even I have trouble fitting in their seats.

That said, there are airlines that cater to "comfort". Virgin America is one of them. They're not doing so well: it turns out that most customers either don't know or don't care about the quality of the flight, just the price. Virgin's prices are 10-20% higher than their competitors, but they just can't seem to fill their flights. Virgin has scaled back their routes as a result.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#65

Post by blackRust »

unfamiliar wrote: post #29

Corollary: this implies that booking flights which are the cheapest/most inconvenient will likely end you up in a less populated plane. Double win! This is another reason to be wary of ubiquitous tracking for marketing purposes. Say I want to fly from Kent to New York via London. I book my expensive transatlantic flight and once that is secured, book my domestic flight. But if Big Data is watching my actions, what is…

> But if Big Data is watching my actions...

Switch the order in which you book the flights. Since we assume separate bookings and sequential booking order this puts lower risk into your first purchase, and also Big Data then has all transatlantic flights from London to choose from to hike your price.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#66

Post by shampine »

gcb0 wrote: post #44
saryant wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering airfares are the cheapest they've ever been in the US, I don't know how that's even remotely true. More of "the masses" are able to fly than ever before.

it's not cheap because the system works. it's cheaper because more and more jobs require constant travel so they have much more of the good predative revenue. for example at work I've never seen a 300 mile trip for less than 350. ever. let alone the la-Chicago for 100 they mention in the article. that would look like a bug in my employee's booking system. what they get from the rest is just icing. so, convince yourse…

I just looked at round trip tickets LAX->RDU for $329 on a direct flight. Flying is cheap.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#67

Post by Someone1234 »

ElComradio wrote: post #60
Someone1234 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be a government imposed minimum seat pitch. The current distance between the back of one seat and the front of another is too small for the top 10% in terms of height of the population, disabled people, and older people. Then airlines cannot use "competition" to argue why they should make seats smaller and smaller, as all competition would have to adapt also. I don't care if they're a private business. T…

Then what happens is you effectively impose a surcharge on the 90% of the population who do not need a larger seat pitch, which hardly seems fair either. You don't have competition on seat pitch because there are not enough people willing to pay the increase for the comfort to sustain an airline.

Older people and disabled people make up a measured percentage as well. So less than 90%. Additionally everyone benefits from more seat pitch, even if just to allow them to more easily use things like a laptop in economy (which is not viable now if the person in front of you reclines fully).

> You don't have competition on seat pitch because there are not enough people willing to pay the increase for the comfort to sustain an airline.

It has nothing to do with "comfort." It isn't a luxury feature in the same vein as a complementary back massage, hot flannel, or free alcoholic drink. It is what people need so they aren't in physical pain for the duration of the flight.

Now, yes, extreme seat pitch (e.g. business/first class) is absolutely about pure comfort. I am talking about a bare minimum so an adult can fit their butt, legs, and knees between the back of their seat and the back of the seat in front when reclined.

If airlines want to save some money, remove recline completely.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#68

Post by mcot2 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

Jet Blue mint is $599 from jfk to sfo or lax. I commend them for only pricing the premium experience at 2-3x.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#69

Post by DanBC »

endeavour wrote: post #54
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's United Club - that's not the first class lounge at all. If you read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Club it says you can buy access to United Club, but doesn't say that about the first class lounge. In fact it says: "the access rules are significantly more restrictive than for United Club. Access to Global First Lounges is generally restricted to United Global First passengers, Star Alli…

Why has this been downvoted?

Some downvotes are accidental. They're usually corrected by other people.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#70

Post by thaumasiotes »

Someone1234 wrote: post #56
thaumasiotes wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can weigh the apple yourself on the scales that occur all throughout the produce section... but yeah, I'd be surprised to see a flat rate for fruit by species no matter the size. Fruit is sold by weight, not count, in China too.

That wasn't their point. In most of the world if a product's price tag says X then you pay exactly X at the register (e.g. £2 sandwich costs exactly £2 in cash, you hand then exactly £2 and leave). In the US that is not the case. Almost everything has a "hidden fee." You go buy a $2 sandwich but pay $2 + 6% ($2.12), if you get food in a restaurant you pay $price + 15-20%, an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is ac…

Try to buy an apple in California and see whether the sales tax was included in the price ;)

I have a two-part theory as to the advertising of prices exclusive of sales tax (which, again, doesn't apply to the apple example, for those HN readers who live in Silicon Valley); it goes like this:

1. Companies that sell products out of more than one store would like to use the same advertising everywhere, instead of making one ad per sales tax region they're present in.

2. This causes everyone to have to advertise prices the same way.

Actually, now I'm curious what the tax scheme was when you ordered something out of the Sears catalog.

Most of your examples have something going for them, but this one

> an advertised $30/month cell phone plan is actually $45 after "taxes and fees,"

is something I've never heard of. All of my US cell phone plans advertised the exact price they charged.

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