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Google should be broken up, say European MPs

bbc.com

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Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#61

Post by lumberjack »

Ideally the EU would figure out a way to prop up its own IT companies instead of being wholly reliant on US based ones and then coming up with threats of lots more paperwork whenever they find their backs against a wall.

This is what is happening here. Lots of smallish companies depend on ads in the EU and they are obviously being hurt by Google's monopoly. Realistically, breaking up Google just means lots more paperwork for Google. It won't actually mean new competition in search.

Despite all this, whenever a government entity is in need of some IT infrastructure it's always Microsoft, HP and other US based companies that get the contract.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#62

Post by 1123581321 »

cbeach wrote: post #13

I was blocked indefinitely from Adsense by Google's faulty algorithms (without explanation and with appeals rejected without explanation). I lost the revenue I'd earnt that month, and soon realised Google holds a monopoly in this space, and no one else offered a comparable service. I'm all for Google's stronghold to be broken. reply

There are other text brokers. You just couldn't find one that paid as much as Google. That's not a monopoly problem. A problem is if Google kept Adsense payouts artificially low or charged advertisers too much because of their market power.

(Also, a monopoly on the buy side is called a monopsony.)

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#63

Post by anon1385 »

vince_refiti wrote: post #23
oblio wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When debating pro-against EU, we should never forget how pre-EU Europe looked like. We've been incredibly good at killing each other. I'd pick a huge beauracracy over arms races any day of the week.

Don't they still subsidize their agricultural sector, and dump stuff on the international markets and hurt non-EU farmers? I consider that to be very uncompetitive.

The common agricultural policy is largely an ecological and humanitarian disaster. However, it's only one aspect of the EU, and most of the member states would have similar subsidies if they were outside the EU anyway. Even the anti-EU parties in European nations tend to favour maintaining the subsidies (e.g. UKIP policy is to maintain the single farm payment after an EU exit). The US isn't in the EU and still has a significant program of agricultural subsidies.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#65

Post by microtonal »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #48
vixen99 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the unelected officials who decide these matters in non-smoke filled rooms in an organisation that hasn't been passed by its own auditors in more than 13 years (a business would have been taken to court by now) and has a current black hole of £34 billion which has willy-nilly to be filled from national coffers - no questions asked. All irrelevant to the subject under discussion? I don't think so.

I'm sure it is relevant, and the EU has serious issues that need to be fixed. But that doesn't affect the question of whether or not Google has a monopoly which is causing market harm.

Indeed, and besides that, this vote was by the European Parliament, which is directly elected by EU citizens.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#66

Post by soneil »

tomwilde wrote: post #12
harperlee wrote: post #4

I don't know a lot about the requirements of these operations; how can the European Union guarantee that each Subgoogle does not agree with the rest to provide services to each other that I can't access to? I don't see how they can enforce that any company can be playing a level field against another subgoogle competitor...

That's the real problem; they don't know what to do about it, but they'll rather do anything instead of nothing. Either it's gonna be a lot of hot air or turn out for the worse. What's funny is that Google already operates as separate legal entities in different European countries (though some countries share one HQ and hence legal identity). How they plan to further "break it up" I can't imagine.

I don't think the aim is geographic boundaries, but functional boundaries. eg, Google Advertising is the only ad network allowed on Google Search.

To use a loose analogy with the Microsoft trials; msft having a monopoly on the desktop wasn't the problem. They earned it. Using that monopoly to create a second monopoly in the browser space, was the issue. Hence the unbundling.

In this case, Google having a monopoly in search isn't the problem - again, they've earned it fairly. But using that monopoly to prop up additional monopolies in, eg, advertising, is problematic.

I don't think they'll actually try to split Google up. It's so-far sabre rattling, and this decision just ensures they actually have a sabre to rattle.

But if, eg, third-party advertisers were allowed to compete with Google on Google's own properties? That'd be interesting.

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#68

Post by Dewie »

oblio wrote: post #11
vince_refiti wrote: post #6

The European Union should be broken up.

When debating pro-against EU, we should never forget how pre-EU Europe looked like. We've been incredibly good at killing each other. I'd pick a huge beauracracy over arms races any day of the week.

So you think that if the EU disbanded, there would be more wars (and/or arms-races) in Europe? Between which nations?

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#69

Post by vixen99 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #48
vixen99 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the unelected officials who decide these matters in non-smoke filled rooms in an organisation that hasn't been passed by its own auditors in more than 13 years (a business would have been taken to court by now) and has a current black hole of £34 billion which has willy-nilly to be filled from national coffers - no questions asked. All irrelevant to the subject under discussion? I don't think so.

I'm sure it is relevant, and the EU has serious issues that need to be fixed. But that doesn't affect the question of whether or not Google has a monopoly which is causing market harm.

Yes you are right (I got a bit carried away there!) but let's note "The ultimate decision will rest with EU competition commissioner Margrethe Vestager." - an unelected official.

And while I'm on the irrelevancy track (apologies) - how about an unelected foreign minister with, as reported by observers, no demonstrable talents and certainly no mandate. What are we coming to?

Re: Google should be broken up, say European MPs

#70

Post by wobbleblob »

agd wrote: post #7

> Google has around 90% market share for search in Europe It's a complete monopoly and the barrier to entry is huge. Might be a good thing to break them up.

It's not going to break up on account of the European Union. It's a fairly large market today, but one with only decline in its future. Europe's relative share of the world economy will not increase again during the lifetime of anyone alive today.

I also question whether Google isn't already more powerful than the EU. If it threatens to suspend services to the EU, it would cause a massive backlash among inhabitants, and not one that would be directed at Google. In most member states, popular support for continued EU membership is already dangerously low. Cutting 90% of the people off from their email can be the final straw.

Remember when the EU wanted to break up Microsoft. What they ended up getting was a crippled version of Windows for the same price. Everyone bought the full version instead.

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