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Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

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Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#61

Post by potatolicious »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #39
op00to wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're still in business because they are far better than the entrenched, governmentally-appointed taxi companies in any locality I've been in, except for perhaps Manhattan.

Manhattanite here. Taxis are still terrible for some things. While it's almost never impossible to find one, they still do the same tricks of "oh, the credit card machine is broken," and "I'll only drive uptown right now," and "I don't drive to JFK in the morning." I can't stand a lot of Uber's ethical practices, but I still prefer them over cabs.

Another Manhattanite here, I actually prefer cabs to Uber, though I prefer Lyft over both.

Uber drivers in the last year have become, without fail, become much worse at pathfinding than cab drivers. I've had drivers completely miss major turns or get lost while the meter's running. And more recently, I've noticed a pattern of behavior where I'd call an Uber and the car wouldn't even begin moving for > 5 minutes.

I'm not sure what that's all about, maybe they're waiting for Surge to kick in in the hopes of getting a fatter fare? Either way, I have not had an Uber arrive within the estimated time for over a year.

Lyft drivers on the other hand start moving right away after they're assigned.

> "oh, the credit card machine is broken," and "I'll only drive uptown right now,"

It sucks that you have to deal with it, but the solution is really simple. Just get in the cab, don't be a sucker and tell the driver where you're going through the window. If they balk, take out your phone and take a picture of their license at the back and tell them you're dialing 311. They will immediately fold and take you where you're going.

Ditto credit card - if the credit card machine is broken they are obligated to tell you at the beginning of the ride, and if they don't you can walk away for free.

Ditto the JFK thing - a cab cannot refuse a fare within city limits.

I've never seen a cabbie not fold like a house of cards when threatened with a 311 call. For all its warts the T&LC actually polices driver complaints pretty hard.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#62

Post by mturmon »

codezero wrote: post #7

Given the time frames they looked at, couldn't a bunch of these be people going to a pub, and then leaving after last call? This would also explain the spike near the weekend, among other things.

Or, parties and events at downtown hotels (e.g., Boston back bay).

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#63

Post by gtremper »

striking wrote: post #43
mmcclure wrote: post #26

I gotta say, I'm not really seeing the creepy / cringey / evil / whatever-else here... Anyone (especially the HN crowd) should know they have the data, and if you think they're not carefully analyzing it behind the scenes (like every other tech company who has your data), I've got things to sell you. I personally think a tiny peek like this into the data, much like the usage posts that OKCupid, YouPorn, and others gi…

The problem here (for me personally, at least) is that Uber is not in the business of selling dates/"encounters" and that people don't expect a ridesharing company to go right for the sexual data. Even OKCupid is straddling the line here with http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/we-experiment-on-human-bei... noting that: To test this, we took pairs of bad matches (actual 30% match) and told them they were exceptionally…

A little off-topic, but I don't see why OKCupid's actions here are unethical. Their matching algorithm isn't perfect, so they shouldn't treat it as an oracle of truth. How else would they discover false negatives in their algorithm? Especially since, in this case, a false negative is worse than a false positive (not meeting someone you'll like vs having one unsuccessful date).

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#64

Post by anigbrowl »

gordon_freeman wrote: post #52
teacup50 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone (especially the HN crowd) should know they have the data, and if you think they're not carefully analyzing it behind the scenes (like every other tech company who has your data), I've got things to sell you. That's the creepy bit. Who owns that data? I want to live in a world where I own my data, and it can't be used for creepy purposes like this, or to extract additional value through arbitrage based on asy…

Well In this digital age, we do not own the data even if we are generating the data. So I would not go to extreme telling companies not to use my data for any purpose but I would definitely like some assurances from them not to use for such creepy and unnecessary means. Time and time again, we are seeing companies abusing our data be it Facebook for manipulating news feed for experimentation or Uber for such nonsensi…

You would have much more control over your personal data in the EU. Companies are required to share it with you on request and are subject to limits on how long they can retain it.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#65

Post by anigbrowl »

striking wrote: post #12

To me, it's not even the use of data per se that is most creepy about this post. Really, the tone of the essay seems to revel in "having 'fun' with user data," as if a sophomore at a university wrote it. I mean, I found the idea behind the post interesting: of course you can analyze trends in ridership to draw interesting conclusions. At the end of the day, however, it's a horrible idea to say "Hey, we know which of…

ridership patterns of sick or socioeconomically disadvantaged people

You mean the sort of people who take the bus, who are pretty much the opposite of their target customers?

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#66

Post by nemothekid »

chockablock wrote: post #38
kogir wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to start with the original data, which is obviously de-anonymized. Full data -> [gender, time, origin neighborhood, destination neighborhood] leaves you with a pretty anonymous dataset, and is all that would be required for this analysis. Internal metrics teams nearly always have access to complete data. The issue is sharing non-anonymized data externally.

I agree it's possible that the name-to-gender mapping was done before the full ride data was handed over to this analyst. (Though just removing real names would still leave a lot to be desired in the anonymizing process). However there's no mention in these posts of such safeguards, and subjectively the post reads more like the analyst is just fishing around in the full raw dataset of ride times, start and end locati…

> Do you think that your average Uber rider would be OK with Uber employees analyzing their ride patterns (with their real names attached) to try to figure out where and when they are having sex?

I don't see how this is any different from Google analyzing search data to try and figure I'm pregnant. You could make the argument that "its a algorithm" but at one point someone had to sit down and build that model.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#67

Post by bluetshirt »

mmcclure wrote: post #26

I gotta say, I'm not really seeing the creepy / cringey / evil / whatever-else here... Anyone (especially the HN crowd) should know they have the data, and if you think they're not carefully analyzing it behind the scenes (like every other tech company who has your data), I've got things to sell you. I personally think a tiny peek like this into the data, much like the usage posts that OKCupid, YouPorn, and others gi…

It's not about who has what data. It's about what's being done with it.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#68

Post by grayclhn »

wangarific wrote: post #53
physcab wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between this type of post and a post by OkCupid. OkCupid is a dating platform and their blog posts are net-positives for their users. What should I say in my first opening message? What do I wear in a picture to attract a mate? By contrast, it's simply not professional and reeks of juvenile behavior for Uber to be writing a post like this. Just because you have data and have these thoughts, doesn…

Feels to me like someone saw the success of OKCupid and their content marketing strategy and tried to shoehorn in something similar with whatever data they had with less than stellar results.

What you've described is "poor judgment."

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#69

Post by bluetshirt »

meowface wrote: post #28
colinbartlett wrote: post #8

Is it sad that in the realm of Uber blunders I find this relatively tame?

Yeah, frankly this doesn't seem all that bad compared to some of the words coming out of executives' mouths. One could do an analysis like this while still working with anonymized data. Still a bit creepy, but not that different from reports and blog posts you see from other startups and tech companies.

The trouble is that it all adds up to paint a picture of a corporate culture that's a little too comfortable being icky.

Re: Rides of Glory – Uber Blog (2012)

#70

Post by aroman »

gtremper wrote: post #63
striking wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here (for me personally, at least) is that Uber is not in the business of selling dates/"encounters" and that people don't expect a ridesharing company to go right for the sexual data. Even OKCupid is straddling the line here with http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/we-experiment-on-human-bei... noting that: To test this, we took pairs of bad matches (actual 30% match) and told them they were exceptionally…

A little off-topic, but I don't see why OKCupid's actions here are unethical. Their matching algorithm isn't perfect, so they shouldn't treat it as an oracle of truth. How else would they discover false negatives in their algorithm? Especially since, in this case, a false negative is worse than a false positive (not meeting someone you'll like vs having one unsuccessful date).

It was unethical because they didn't warn their users ahead of time that they might randomly be opted into the alternate pairing system.
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