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Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#61

Post by adam419 »

shas3 wrote: post #44
cryoshon wrote: post #6

If Obama's drive for immigration reform uses the logic of "STEM SHORTAGE!!!" as a basis for expanding OPT, it means that hyperbole has won, and we here at HN will suffer lower wages and a more competitive job market as a result. I'm not actually sure that this is what the rhetoric is going to look like, but the rest of my comment assumes that it will look that way as it pertains to the expansion of OPT. There is no S…

I think there are a lot of misconceptions on this thread, especially since the article mostly talks about OPT! US domiciles' desire for protectionism is understandable. But it cannot be couched in language of fairness and equity. In a truly meritocratic society, one cannot claim competitive advantage based on where they were born. The objective of legal immigration is to help companies hire the best talent, irrespect…

This is beyond a discussion of meritocracy.

What this would do is not further a meritocracy but change the supply/demand equation in way that like others have pointed out, resembles a race to the bottom.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#62

Post by icebraining »

talmand wrote: post #58
icebraining wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nothing to gain. Except for those foreigners who get much higher salaries than at home, plus their whole families and communities thanks to remittances.

But we can easily reverse that. What about the local that now has to accept lower wages at home, which also affects their whole families and communities?

What about them?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#63

Post by seanmcdirmid »

HamSession wrote: post #34
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

People are not worried about individuals of equal skill taking their jobs, but those of lesser skills. Example. Individual A : Master's of CS from Stanford, Passed interviews, Java, SQL, Hadoop, JSF - Requested salary - 115k Individual B : PhD Student at Stanford, Passed interviews, Java, SQL - Requested salary - 95k Job requirements: Java, SQL, Hadoop, JSF What would you decide on as the hiring manager, you have a l…

A PhD student at Stanford wanting only $95K?!? I would be extremely suspicious; is B going to be happy with the job and not leave within a year?

In this market, at least, I don't think these choices are very common.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#64

Post by JamesBarney »

I think it is obvious and we can all agree that this decision would help foreign students, and American tech corporations. We can probably also agree this decisions is similar to globalization in that it causes an increase in global utility. But given that policy is usually measured against what utility it provides for it's current citizens. One big open question in economics is will this lead to an increase in the utility of current Americans. I think this is the interesting question. Does the increase in talent from around the world spill over enough to offset the reduction in wages from the increase in labor supply?

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#65

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bsg75 wrote: post #17
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

How many countries place no restrictions on non-citizens being able to enter and work for long terms?

China...well, I have to re-get a new working visa every year, but its pretty automatic. The fact that citizenship or long term resident permits are not possible makes this more common.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#66

Post by waterlesscloud »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #63
HamSession wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are not worried about individuals of equal skill taking their jobs, but those of lesser skills. Example. Individual A : Master's of CS from Stanford, Passed interviews, Java, SQL, Hadoop, JSF - Requested salary - 115k Individual B : PhD Student at Stanford, Passed interviews, Java, SQL - Requested salary - 95k Job requirements: Java, SQL, Hadoop, JSF What would you decide on as the hiring manager, you have a l…

A PhD student at Stanford wanting only $95K?!? I would be extremely suspicious; is B going to be happy with the job and not leave within a year? In this market, at least, I don't think these choices are very common.

"This market" won't be "this market" after this new plan is place.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#67

Post by dragonwriter »

This is horrendously bad journalism. It is a "news" article making claims about likely future events that cites only "those closely involved in the immigration debate" -- not, particularly, anyone who is, even anyone anonymously attributed in a way which suggests that they are, in any position to know what the President is actually planning to do.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#68

Post by icebraining »

aikah wrote: post #26
LLWM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". If someone else can do the same job just as well as you, you think employers should be forced to hire you instead just because you happened to be born in the right country? That's just selfishness that harms everyone else.

> It's a bit sad that you see competition on a global scale as "being fucked over". more offer+equal demand === lower salaries.

By that logic, tech workers should also demand legally capping the number of new graduates; they provide "more offer" too.

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#69

Post by seanmcdirmid »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #66
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PhD student at Stanford wanting only $95K?!? I would be extremely suspicious; is B going to be happy with the job and not leave within a year? In this market, at least, I don't think these choices are very common.

"This market" won't be "this market" after this new plan is place.

Why? At the high-end, it is already an international market for talent. Where visas are hard to come by, the choice is not often to increase salaries to hire more Americans, but where should we open that new office: Berlin, Bangalore, Singapore, or Beijing? Couple that with a horrible American tax policy that makes repatriating income earned abroad expensive, and doing R&D outside of the US is quite appealing (not only can you find more talent, but you don't have to bring money back to the US to pay for that talent).

Re: Obama likely to expand a foreign-student pipeline the high-tech industry loves

#70

Post by revelation »

dferr wrote: post #52
thisisdallas wrote: post #29

So who exactly is this helping? Ok, I know it helps out foreign students, but I am asking strictly from an American perspective. First and foremost, the governments job is to serve the American people. How does this specific action of Obama's immigration proposal help the American people as a whole? It's a 100% possibility that I have this wrong but I see two groups who this helps. The first group is foreigners who l…

> and the second group is big businesses who can most likely hire lower wage workers. They're called Billionaires Without Borders. And it sickens me to see them feign interest in diversity and globalization, when really they're looking for cheaper Tech labor, because heaven forbid capitalism from ever working in the american employees favor.

This seems to be downvoted because it goes against some ideal of a meritocratic job market or other illusions.

Even if you think that allowing more foreign workers is a good thing in principle, you have to consider that the implementation as it stands is quite a bit messier than that. Plenty of these workers are hired by consulting companies that base their business on hiring foreign experts and exploiting them, paying them less than market rate and restricting their mobility and freedom.

Obviously, this isn't a net positive for society or the job market.

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