Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana • Hacker News Board

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#61

Post by chimeracoder » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:24 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #5

ericcumbee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC legalizing- Christmas came early for Late Night show writers and hosts.

I expect it to get a lot of play in the media. In addition to being the seat of government, DC is the first place to vote for legalization on the East Coast. Although the change has already been passed (overwhelmingly) by referendum, the city council still has to submit the changes to Congress, which will have 60 days to veto them. Further, at any point in the future they can restrict what DC can do via amendments to…

> DC is the first place to vote for legalization on the East Coast.

Well, DC is a city, and Portland, Maine actually already voted to legalize marijuana in 2013[0].

If DC were a state, it'd be the first state on the east coast, but it's not. It's the first city that is not part of a state (and therefore not subject to constitutional rights allowed states), which is what makes this case very interesting.

DC is tricky because it's such a special case, but remember that it's much easier to pass an initiative at the city level than at the state level.

[0] http://www.mpp.org/states/maine/

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#62

Post by jdminhbg » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:24 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #47

techpeace wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they're referring to the private prison industry, which makes a pretty penny off locking up non-violent drug offenders. Their trade organization listed liberalizing drug laws as a potential threat to their bottom line in their last annual report, so we can expect that they will fiercely lobby against anything happening at a federal level.

I feel like this situation is overstated a lot. Something like 8% of prisoners in the US are in privately run prisons, which could be a problem, but it's not the massive number that is often implied.

People do often overestimate how many prisoners are in privately-run prisons, but at the same time, if the US suddenly had 10% fewer prisoners, those privately-run prisons would likely be the first to go.

As far as lobbying, the other 92% of prisoners are guarded by very powerful public sector unions, whose incentives are the same.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#63

Post by a_c_s » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #49

wavefunction wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it depress prices for other crops? The economic phenomena you're describing is called "replacement" but it's not like farmers aren't growing opium poppies because cannabis is so easy to grow.

Cannabis and opium poppies cannot be used to produce the same end-product. From what I understand, hemp can replace cotton in most end-products; being much easier to grow (and hence cheaper / more plentiful), it could potentially flood markets earlier reserved to cotton, hence depressing prices. Say you have two farmers; one grows cannabis, the other cotton. Because cannabis is easier to grow, the cannabis farmer has…

If cotton is an inferior crop, why would we want to keep planting so much of it?

In this scenario where hemp & marijuana are legal, cotton farmers could start growing hemp too if that is more profitable.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#64

Post by nate_meurer » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

metrix wrote: post #28

Shivetya wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't DC just vote to legalize it, you just cannot buy or sell it. Here is to hoping the next big issue after marriage equality if fixing our drug laws, which are more damaging than many will admit and far too profitable to law enforcement and the prison industry.

Profitable? It costs the state a lot to hold a prisoner.

Yes, profitable. For example, prison guard unions lobby ferociously against relaxing drug laws, in order to protect prison guards' jobs and salaries:

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/

http://mic.com/articles/41531/union-of-the-snake-how-califor...

EDIT: Here's a cute quote from Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies:

"any changes with respect to drugs and controlled substances or illegal immigration could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, and sentenced, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them." [0]

[0] - http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9N...

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#65

Post by TheGeminon » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #53

The Liberal Canadian government of the 90s toyed with the idea of marijuana decriminalization, but the opposing argument that was always raised was that the Americans would be so staunchly against it. Back in the 90s I would not have expected all other "Cascadian" states would legalize marijuana before British Columbia.

Well, its not like BC can independently legalize/decriminalize it. All they can do is not enforce federal laws.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#66

Post by chaostheory » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:28 PM UTC

evincarofautumn wrote: post #52

chaostheory wrote: post #32

I still find it very strange that California wasn't one of the first states to legalize marijuana. Now there are three states ahead. EDIT: Looking at the results, these counties that voted 'No' surprised me Los Angeles County (Los Angeles, Long Beach, Glendale, Santa Clarita, Pomona, Palmdale, Pasadena, Torrance, Inglewood, Burbank, Carson, Santa Monica etc.) Santa Clara County (San Jose, Santa Clara, Cupertino, Gilr…

Maybe illicit growers and sellers in those areas want to avoid government intervention in their process and profits? I have no idea how much voting power that industry has, though.

I don't feel that growers currently have much voting power or even enough money to influence elections.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#67

Post by hkarthik » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #43

arca_vorago wrote: post #14

I'm ready for Texas to follow suite. You think corn, wheat, cotton, cows, and oil are profitable? Wait till the congressmen and farmers understand how valuable MJ is as a cash crop, I predict legalization even in our red state within a decade.

It is so hard to say. Texas very much has a libertarian streak on the right and the cities are blue, but there are so many social conservatives around that it is hard to get a bead on how realistic that is.

I've been in Texas 10 years, and I don't see this happening until things change at the federal level. Same with gay marriage.

Things don't change in Texas until the tanks roll in.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#68

Post by king_jester » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

waterlesscloud wrote: post #47

techpeace wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they're referring to the private prison industry, which makes a pretty penny off locking up non-violent drug offenders. Their trade organization listed liberalizing drug laws as a potential threat to their bottom line in their last annual report, so we can expect that they will fiercely lobby against anything happening at a federal level.

I feel like this situation is overstated a lot. Something like 8% of prisoners in the US are in privately run prisons, which could be a problem, but it's not the massive number that is often implied.

It's not just the privately run prison complexes, but also suppliers, consultancies, police equipment manufacturers, arms manufacturers, and so. That's the 'industrial' in prison industrial complex.

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#69

Post by dllthomas » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

a_c_s wrote: post #63

toyg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis and opium poppies cannot be used to produce the same end-product. From what I understand, hemp can replace cotton in most end-products; being much easier to grow (and hence cheaper / more plentiful), it could potentially flood markets earlier reserved to cotton, hence depressing prices. Say you have two farmers; one grows cannabis, the other cotton. Because cannabis is easier to grow, the cannabis farmer has…

If cotton is an inferior crop, why would we want to keep planting so much of it? In this scenario where hemp & marijuana are legal, cotton farmers could start growing hemp too if that is more profitable.

There is a lot of different infrastructure for large scale cotton farming versus large scale hemp farming. Those heavily invested in the former have obvious incentive to keep it profitable rather than having to retool. That isn't to say that it's economically most efficient, but that it can certainly motivate propaganda and eventually legislation (and my understanding is that there's some historical evidence that this is what happened, but that it's not completely conclusive).

Re: Alaskans vote to legalize marijuana

#70

Post by lisper » Wed, Nov 05, 2014, 5:46 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #54

kyleblarson wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Seattleite I was optimistic things might change at the federal level when Obama appointed Kerlikowski as drug czar, given his experience as police chief in what even in 2009 was a very cannabis friendly city. I guess I was just another sucker for hope and change that never materialized.

The US government is a pretty big boat and takes a while to turn around. You have to have patience and a longer view, but change does happen. In 2012 it was two states. Now it's four. We're getting there.

Exactly. Ten years ago gay marriage was illegal in all but one state. Now it's legal in all but 15, and even that number is shrinking rapidly.