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Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

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Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#61

Post by VLM »

klibertp wrote: post #50
ericdykstra wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another data point here... After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work. I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2…

Instead of a gaming mouse I had great success with trackballs. I have no idea why they fell out of favour - I remember them being rather popular some 10-15 years ago. Anyway, with a trackball I don't need to move my hand at all, except when switching from keyboard to mouse and back. I use this one: http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/product/trackman-marble YMMV, but I don't think I'm ever going to return to using mouse.

I have three computers on my desk with three trackballs side by side and the keyboard on a KVM switch. Well really just a "K" switch. Works pretty well for me. I use classic wired trackballs instead of your marble. I'm not happy that they're long discontinued but I stockpiled quite a few when production ended. I hate the idea of wireless, last thing I need in my life is one more thing to worry about charging to replacing batteries.

Trackballs are much faster. Given that I might switch from keyboard to trackball thousands of times per day, saving just one second by knowing where the trackball is, saves quite a bit of time. I also find it faster and more accurate for selection work to use my thumb instead of the much larger muscles used for mice.

I don't do much gui work other than clicking links in a web browser but when I do I find the trackball to be superior.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#62

Post by melling »

jwr wrote: post #41
flente wrote: post #28

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 I read it about a year ago, and it was probably the single most important article I've read in my entire life. Some background: I've been using computers since I was a little kid. Used to play videos games a whole ton. Around the age of 15, I started having severe RSI-related pain in my hands. Even after I stopped gaming, I c…

Seconded. I am grateful to Aaron Iba for posting his article ( http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm... ). I had similar experiences, and thanks to him my (severe) RSI problems are a thing of the past. There was a time when I was reduced to dictating and using touch-only keyboards (by FingerWorks) or ergonomic keyboards, and even that for a limited number of hours per day. These days I can type…

His conclusion:

"just an area of soft tissues suffering from mild oxygen deprivation." http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc

Couldn't symptoms be treated by increasing blood flow with exercise or stretching, for example? If stress is a cause, wouldn't it be relieved by reducing symptoms?

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#63

Post by branola »

henrik_w wrote: post #30
flente wrote: post #28

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 I read it about a year ago, and it was probably the single most important article I've read in my entire life. Some background: I've been using computers since I was a little kid. Used to play videos games a whole ton. Around the age of 15, I started having severe RSI-related pain in my hands. Even after I stopped gaming, I c…

An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More detail…

Stopped clicking with a mouse completely and never looked back. Dwell clicking apps are a godsend for anyone with mouse-related injuries.

http://code.google.com/p/windows-dwell-clicker/

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#64

Post by randomsearch »

Recently I've had RSI and been having physio. My physiotherapist seems to be very experienced and pretty much right about everything. Here's what she told me:

1. Fix your posture. 2. Use ergonomic devices. 3. Exercise to strengthen your core and back muscles, and counteract your sedentary lifestyle.

Details below.

1. Posture

The main cause of RSI is bad posture at the desk. Both the way you type and use the mouse, but importantly also the way you sit.

There's little point treating the symptoms if you don't treat the cause. Looking around my workplace, I see pretty much no-one in the correct posture.

- The back of your chair should be in contact with your back, i.e. actually touching it at all times.

- You should be right under the desk. If your chair has arm rests that stop you from getting under the desk, get a new chair.

- Top of screen at eye-level (most people have this spot on).

- Keyboard a little back from the edge of the desk.

- Elbows at approximately 90 degrees

- your wrists should not be at an awkward angle as they approach the keyboard.

2. Ergonomic devices

Get a good sized keyboard. Don't use awkward keyboard shortcuts, e.g. alt-tabbing on a Mac running virtual box requires your left thumb to reach underneath the other fingers. This is bad. Re-map common shortcuts or use two hands.

Get a mouse that has a natural (hand-shake/vertical) grip. e.g.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical-...

This reduces the stress on your wrist. Made a huge difference to me. Check out the reviews.

3. Exercise

My physio recommended swimming, as physios so often do! It will strengthen your back and core, to help you sit up straight.

However, she also recommended walking. Walk at lunch and in the evening, to get away from the sitting posture.

This has pretty much cured my RSI. Take it or leave it! :-)

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#65

Post by jeremyt »

rwallace wrote: post #55

Voice recognition can work well for English text. For writing code, it's certainly better than nothing, but on the awkward side; I found a zero force keyboard works better: http://specialneedscomputers.ca/index.php?l=product_detail&p... A USB touchpad is a zero force mouse substitute, though a little annoying for positioning; I ended up using one for clicking in combination with an optical mouse for positioning. Has…

A CleanKeys keyboard does the same thing but cheaper.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#66

Post by tluyben2 »

Despite my extreme (32 year long) computer use, I only had RSI symptoms when using a mouse and under stress. Since I use my macbook trackpad and have no stress, I can sit in any position for any time and do anything and have 0 symptoms. I am very interested in coding without keyboards etc because these days I happen to think a lot more about my code before trying it and that means I walk around a lot; sitting down or walking to my standing desk both seem cumbersome.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#67

Post by billmalarky »

colin_mccabe wrote: post #22
billmalarky wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm beginning to have some carpal tunnel pain brought on by heavy keyboard/phone use and my weight lifting regimen. What is it about the Cherry MX blue switch keyboards ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201... ) that helps with RSI? Just looking at it, it appears like it would be even harder on my wrists.

I'm not sure that I really agree that a good mechanical keyboard is better than a good rubber dome keyboard for people with RSI. The key word there is "good." The thing about rubber dome keyboards is that they are the cheapest kind of keyboard. So you'll find a lot of absolutely awful ones out there. For example, you'll find ones where the amount of force you need to push in the key is unpredictable (keys feel "stick…

Thanks for the response. I actually picked up some schiek wrist wraps and they are definitely helping on the weights front. I'll look into typing postures today.

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#68

Post by billmalarky »

ObviousScience wrote: post #10
billmalarky wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm beginning to have some carpal tunnel pain brought on by heavy keyboard/phone use and my weight lifting regimen. What is it about the Cherry MX blue switch keyboards ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201... ) that helps with RSI? Just looking at it, it appears like it would be even harder on my wrists.

The pressure curve and click placement on Cherry MX blues are generally conducive to learning to not bottom out on the keys and apply the proper amount of pressure to the key. Bottoming out on the keys and using excessive force because of a lack of tactile feedback on the keypress are leading causes of injuries, because they provide a sudden jolt (when the key stops moving, but your finger doesn't) and unnecessary st…

Thanks for the info. I had never even heard of "hard typing."

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#69

Post by billmalarky »

phloxicon wrote: post #37

My wrist pain is so bad I've had to change profession. Nevertheless, computers are used in every job. At first, ergonomic keyboards and mice were enough. Then any kind of mice was too painful. Then I became fully ambidextrous, writing and using mice with left hand. After I maxed out the pain in that hand, I've moved onto tablets. I find almost no pain typing on a Swype keyboard on my tablet. I got Samsung Note 12.2 2…

Have you considered seeing a hand surgeon?

Re: Programming by Voice: Staying Productive Without Harming Yourself

#70

Post by tgrosinger »

henrik_w wrote: post #30
flente wrote: post #28

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 I read it about a year ago, and it was probably the single most important article I've read in my entire life. Some background: I've been using computers since I was a little kid. Used to play videos games a whole ton. Around the age of 15, I started having severe RSI-related pain in my hands. Even after I stopped gaming, I c…

An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More detail…

I do this same thing using WorkRave. Highly recommend.
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