Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions • Hacker News Board

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#61

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:19 PM UTC

A related helmet controversy:

http://jalopnik.com/5582380/how-the-truth-about-motorcycle-h...

"Ford has long been controversial with major helmet makers, authoring 'Blowing the Lid Off,' the seminal expose of the flawed Snell M2005 helmet safety standard. In it, he proved through objective scientific testing that helmets made to that standard transmitted more forces to riders' heads than some less expensive helmets made to the DOT standard. Ford's article turned conventional wisdom on its head, proving that certain less-expensive DOT helmets were, according to his testing, capable of transmitting lower forces to a rider's head than the typically more expensive Snell M2005 brain buckets."

The original article: http://web.archive.org/web/20070305231245/http://www.motorcy...

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#62

Post by adolph » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:21 PM UTC

kryps wrote: post #20

A differing opinion about MIPS helmets from the "helmet advocacy program of the Washington Area Bicyclist Association" (consumer-founded): http://www.helmets.org/mips.htm

Thanks, it is interesting that the need for MIPS may come from all the aero-styling in helmets.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#63

Post by bane » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:25 PM UTC

That's okay,they do decent job of keeping your brains inside your skull in an accident, that's nothing to sneeze at.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#64

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:26 PM UTC

Tomte wrote: post #28

Even if those societal effects were true (there are studies for both sides, and especially the helmet opponents are usually very outspoken and even rude, to the point that they lose credibility), the important thing for me as an individual is not whether helmets lead other people ("the society") to cycle less, but what the effect is on me. Personally I feel some chilling effect (sometimes I cycle without helmet, so s…

>especially the helmet opponents are usually very outspoken and even rude, to the point that they lose credibility

They have to be, because they don't have budgets and per diems. The pro-helmet side makes a fortune from selling helmets. The anti-helmet side runs on passion - whether that passion is for the truth as they see it (or as experiment and study have shown), or simply 'government out of my cornflakes' libertarian rage.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#65

Post by jan_g » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:30 PM UTC

freshflowers wrote: post #35

Helmets are a red herring in the whole cycling discussion. Unless you're racing or mountain biking, you shouldn't need a helmet for regular cycling anymore than you should need a helmet for crossing the street on foot. There's nothing inherently particularly unsafe about cycling (at least no more unsafe than many everyday activities), even while sharing the road with cars. The only thing that makes cycling unsafe in…

I don't think that's healthy point of view. Helmet has saved my skull once and a close relative of mine had an accident that would save him lots of pain had he wore a helmet (he hit a curb with his head when falling down).

Comparing cycling with walking on foot is, well, unusual to me to say the least. Of course, you can fall down walking as well, but as a cyclist, you are faster and you are sharing the road with other bigger/heavier vehicles. I would not dream of going on a bike to cycle in and around my town (somewhat hilly terrain, relatively narrow roads) without a helmet.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#66

Post by whyenot » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:45 PM UTC

awjr wrote: post #31

As a space for cycling campaigner ( http://www.cyclebath.org.uk ) helmet articles are an interesting problem that tend to identify cycling as a dangerous activity without extolling the health benefits of cycling itself. In places like New York, where their Citi Bike scheme has had huge success without helmets (23 million miles of riding, no deaths), utility cycling (commuting) has been made safe through a huge invest…

> i.e. It's calculated in the UK, that a helmet law would kill 235 people per year more through obesity related deaths

Calculated by whom? Do you have any more information on how the calculator arrived at this figure? To me 235 seems a lot more precise than I would have expected.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#67

Post by danieltillett » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:53 PM UTC

megablast wrote: post #22

danieltillett wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the reduction in cycling is a pretty significant effect. I love cycling, but I am far too scared (or wise) to ever consider riding on a street shared with cars and trucks. In the end if anything goes wrong the driver will feel sad and I won't feel anything.

> In the end if anything goes wrong the driver will feel sad and I won't feel anything. This is pure hyperbole. As someone who has been hit by 6 cars, most accidents are minor. Sure you will end up worse off, but only a couple have I not been able to ride away from, and that was because my wheel was damaged. Of course, I started to wear a helmet after about the 3rd time.

It is not really hyperbole when it come to the consequence of a serious accident. Hundreds of cyclists are killed every year by cars and trucks, but I am yet to hear of even one driver killed by a cyclist - this would be a man bites dog type story.

You are far less worried about risk than me - if I had been hit 6 times by cars while on a bike I would not even be able to look at a bike without feeling ill let alone ride one.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#68

Post by danieltillett » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 12:58 PM UTC

awjr wrote: post #31

As a space for cycling campaigner ( http://www.cyclebath.org.uk ) helmet articles are an interesting problem that tend to identify cycling as a dangerous activity without extolling the health benefits of cycling itself. In places like New York, where their Citi Bike scheme has had huge success without helmets (23 million miles of riding, no deaths), utility cycling (commuting) has been made safe through a huge invest…

> Making people feel safe cycling to and from shops, homes, schools and their place of work.

The real issue is actually making cyclist safer, not making them feel safer. Even segregated paths are not a solution if they have to cross traffic.

I am not sure how to solve this problem short of pushing oil up to a $1000 a barrel - even then I suspect a lot of drivers would rather give up eating rather than give up their car.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#69

Post by frabbit » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 1:04 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #18

Yes but they should have opened with this paragraph buried in the article: The $40 helmet is one of the great success stories of the past half-century. Like seat belts, air bags, and smoke detectors, bike helmets save countless lives every year. They do a stellar job of preventing catastrophic skull fractures, plus dings and scrapes from low-hanging tree branches and other common nuisances.

Is there a solid citation as to how effective bicycle helmets are at preventing catastrophic skull fractures?

Also, surely it depends on which type of helmet we are talking about? Talking about "helmets" in general does not make much sense when there are so many of them adhering to several different standards.

Re: Bicycle helmets do almost nothing to prevent concussions

#70

Post by tom_morrow » Sat, Oct 11, 2014, 1:07 PM UTC

nl wrote: post #32

konstruktor wrote: post #9

Discussions of cycle helmets are usually very one sided, focusing on head trauma and completely ignoring other kinds of trauma as well as the positive health effects of cycling. Wearing the helmet doesn't just add a certain amount of padding to the head without any negative side effects: For example, motorists keep less distance while overtaking you [1] and making helmets mandatory reduces cycling by up to a third [2…

Regarding the reduction is cycling: the share of cycling as a transport mechanism fell by almost the same amount in a number of jurisdictions with no mandatory helmet laws over the same time period[1]. People in the transport strategy field generally seem to think the cause of this change was more dual-car families. However, I used to be strongly in favour of mandatory helmet laws. Now I tend to think they need to be…

an effective mandatory helmet law, from a national health perspective, would be to force those who drive a car to work to wear a bicycle helmet ...all day long.