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The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

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Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#61
post #4

I have to agree with the initial comment on the article, this is a fear mongering piece. Anyone that has a working knowledge of firearms can put together a usable weapon using readily available parts. In fact, a trip to home depot is all you need in order to build a crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun. I also think it goes without saying that a criminal would probably opt to spend the $1,200 required to buy this CNC…

Don't say that. They will outlaw education next. Any person with high school knowledge of physics and chemistry can mcguyver himself a lot of really deadly stuff.

Or just buy a drone, strap something light and sharp to it, and just nodedive it into the target.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#62

Guns scare the shit out of me. When I grew up in Australia where there is basically no guns. I used to walk on streets even on a drunken Friday / Saturday night without fear. I moved to the US a few years ago and since then every corner I turn, I see people and I worry. I don't worry about getting robbed. No. I worry about a gun fight somewhere and a stray bullet hits me. I worry that someone drunk might hold me at g…

I see the opposite, I see a world where the predator on the street corner cannot be sure I am armed, who has to pause and think before he mugs me or another, are they armed? They have to think twice about that home invasion as well. You vastly over exaggerate the issue here, this level or paranoia needs medical assistance. Gun laws will not make people safer, making an already illegal act; using a gun against someone…

> They have to think twice about that home invasion as well.

As a simple supporting point, home invasions while the tenants are currently at home is much higher in Canada where firearms are significantly less common. In America, burglars make sure noone is home before breaking into it. This has been correlated to gun ownership and castle doctrines.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#63
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, its been trivial to build "zip guns" with basic tools. Crude pistols aren't that tough to make, especially when the heavy lifting (making of reliable and safe ammo) is already done for you.

>> crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun > "zip guns" This helps people make a fully automatic machine gun, an AR-15, not a single-shot gun.

So? Every person in US has legal access to 4 tons of screaming death on demand. The amount of assaults done by car is minuscule.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#64
post #4

I have to agree with the initial comment on the article, this is a fear mongering piece. Anyone that has a working knowledge of firearms can put together a usable weapon using readily available parts. In fact, a trip to home depot is all you need in order to build a crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun. I also think it goes without saying that a criminal would probably opt to spend the $1,200 required to buy this CNC…

Exactly, and it never too "tens of thousands" of dollars to buy a mill unless you were buying one new. A used Bridgeport that can turn out all the parts for say .45 cal automatics (or lower receivers for an AR15) can be had with minimal tooling for less than $10K and usually less than $5K.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#65
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun > "zip guns" This helps people make a fully automatic machine gun, an AR-15, not a single-shot gun.

This is why gun owners get nervous when people who don't understand firearms try to legislate their ownership.

Your comment implies that there are two classes of people, "gun owners who understand firearms" and "non-gun owners who do not understand firearms". A casual glance at the deplorable accidental and unintentional discharge rates in the US statistics should make it immediately clear that gun ownership and understanding firearms have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

I say this as a non-gun-owner who was taught to shoot the old fashion way, by a 12 year old friend who got a rifle for Christmas when I was 11, and have subsequently taken enough firearms training, including in the armed forces, to understand firearms well enough to be terrified of the huge number of ignorant clowns who own them, no matter how well-informed and responsible the majority of gun owners are most of the time.

It is also worth pointing out that since the point of firearms is to make it really easy to kill things it would be disingenuous and stupid to claim anything other than "a gun owner only needs to fail in their understanding or self control for a moment to kill someone", and anyone who believes of their fellow gun-owners, "we never make mistakes"... well, people like that have good company in murderous tyrants the world over.

Everyone makes mistakes now and then. When people with guns make mistakes, other people die. Because the purpose of guns is to make killing really easy, and when you have a technology that makes something really easy you get more of it. To claim otherwise is to claim that intercontinental travel was as common before steamships as after, which is false.

Guns are a tool to solve a problem: killing things. Gun advocates in the US claim that this tool, and this tool alone, can be applied to the unrelated problem of personal safety. I say this is an unrelated problem because it is: in every other developed nation it has been solved more effectively than it has been solved in the US, without substantial reference to guns.

Let me say this again: the problem of personal safety has been solved better (people are safer) in every other developed nation without ubiquitous firearms. This is just a fact. Murder rates in Canada are lower than in the US. Murder rates in England, Australia, New Zealand, France, Germany, Switzerland (where firearms are all inaccessible, remember), etc are all lower than in the US. People in those countries are safer than in the US, despite the freedom of all Americans to carry firearms and the overwhelming victory of the gun lobby in the US in the past couple of decades.

So anyone who advocates firearms as a good solution to the problem of personal safety is like someone advocating bloodletting for personal health. It is a solution that has been tried and failed. It's time to move on to something else, like civilization and the rule of law.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#66
post #4

I have to agree with the initial comment on the article, this is a fear mongering piece. Anyone that has a working knowledge of firearms can put together a usable weapon using readily available parts. In fact, a trip to home depot is all you need in order to build a crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun. I also think it goes without saying that a criminal would probably opt to spend the $1,200 required to buy this CNC…

Don't say that. They will outlaw education next. Any person with high school knowledge of physics and chemistry can mcguyver himself a lot of really deadly stuff. Or just buy a drone, strap something light and sharp to it, and just nodedive it into the target.

They already did that. Roguesci (Rogue Science) Explosives & Weapons forum was brought down by US government. That place was the most solid source of information I've ever seen in this particular area. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/3641-what-happened-t...

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#67
Mother Jones did a story on this a while ago, and I was under the impression that if you had a drill press it would be enough to get an 80% receiver usable.

Either way, I'm glad Defense Distributed is moving the ball forward on this issue.

Edit to add: This company makes plastic ones that a drill, chisel, and Dremel are enough to finish, no CNC machine necessary. http://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/ep80-ar15-rifle-lower-at-hom...

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#68
post #16
post #2

What does it mean to sell a machine the sole purpose of which is to exploit a "legal loophole"? Can't the machine be made illegal the minute it's available to the public? You can't sell all the ingredients, tools and instructions to build a meth lab ( "Breaking Bad in a Box" !) so what's so different with a gun?

Meth is illegal, full stop. Guns are not, that "legal loophole" is referred to by others as the Constitution, which makes gun manufacturing subject to laws and regulations, but not bans in the US.

Meth is schedule II. I think "illegal, full stop" really only works for schedule I.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#69

> ill your own lower receiver at home, however, and you can order the rest of the parts from online gun shops, creating a semi-automatic weapon with no serial number, obtained with no background check, no waiting period Besides the 6 months it takes to learn to make one that won't blow up in your face when you pull the trigger? Alarmist drivel.

It's not that hard to finish assembly, but to your intent: it DOES take enough knowledge & effort to acquire & assemble all the parts that anyone intending to use the finished product for criminal purposes will just buy one (black market most likely).

"OMG someone can make an unregistered gun and kill someone with it!" is hyperventilating drivel. Far, far easier to just buy/steal one. Anyone interested in making one won't be interested in throwing their lives away (arrest/incarceration/execution) by abusing it. Anyone who IS willing to throw their lives away by abusing one won't find any advantage/interest in making one from scratch.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#70
post #4

I have to agree with the initial comment on the article, this is a fear mongering piece. Anyone that has a working knowledge of firearms can put together a usable weapon using readily available parts. In fact, a trip to home depot is all you need in order to build a crude (and pretty dangerous) shotgun. I also think it goes without saying that a criminal would probably opt to spend the $1,200 required to buy this CNC…

And to underscore how a usable rifle may be constructed with readily available parts, I present a personal favorite, the AK-47 built from a receiver recycled from a shovel: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DI...

I will admit that I rather wish I had the skills and knowledge necessary to do something like that. Amazing.
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