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Apocalypse soon: the scientists preparing for the end times

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Re: Apocalypse soon: the scientists preparing for the end times

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being sarcastic, right? Since when our universe is governed by capitalist economy?

I'm quite serious. Our universe is governed by laws of conservation and efficiencies. For AI to exist, it needs power. Power must come from somewhere in the universe and, at least here on earth, it has been shown that there is competition for those resources. Whether this alludes to business or not is irrelevant; it's a fact of our reality that we are all competing against each other for resources.

But competition here has absolutely nothing to do with free-market economy that we have today.

> The AI will need to pay for its way, just like each of us do. If it succeeds into making us into paper clips, it will have to be equally as savvy in marketing and selling those paper clips to someone. Given the shipping charges to the nearest habitable planet are very high, their market likely will have to exist here. I'm sure as shit not going to buy a paper clip made out of you!

One, AI will not necessarily have to pay for anything. It may, or it could convince us to donate resources to it, or it could take them by force.

Two, why would you ever think that it has to market paper clips for anyone (assuming anyone is left)? It optimizes for paper clips, so it makes paper clips. Marketing is a way humans bullshit each other into donating resources so that they don't have to fight for them.

Three, what shipping costs, what buying? Again, AI wants to maximize amount of paper clips in the universe, period. It doesn't want to sell them (unless it leads to more paper clips). The only "shipping cost" it cares about is how much energy it takes to reach another planet, not some arbitrary dollar value people attach to movement of goods.

My problem with your answer is that it lifts market economy from something completely irrelevant to the level of physical laws. The only time an AI would care about it would be if - and only as long as - interacting with humans was a best strategy for that AI to achieve its goals - which is likely only at the very beginning, when it needs to gather enough power to subdue us.

Re: Apocalypse soon: the scientists preparing for the end times

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite serious. Our universe is governed by laws of conservation and efficiencies. For AI to exist, it needs power. Power must come from somewhere in the universe and, at least here on earth, it has been shown that there is competition for those resources. Whether this alludes to business or not is irrelevant; it's a fact of our reality that we are all competing against each other for resources.

But competition here has absolutely nothing to do with free-market economy that we have today. > The AI will need to pay for its way, just like each of us do. If it succeeds into making us into paper clips, it will have to be equally as savvy in marketing and selling those paper clips to someone. Given the shipping charges to the nearest habitable planet are very high, their market likely will have to exist here. I'm…

It sounds like your version of AI has a way of getting power to run itself for nothing. I disagree with that premise. Marketing is raising interest through some means. Shipping costs are how much energy it takes to get to another point in space.

> My problem with your answer is that it lifts market economy from something completely irrelevant to the level of physical laws.

I don't actually think you have a problem with what I'm saying, but I definitely do think you have a problem with the topic. It is upsetting to think about AI 'taking over' and my points only served to discuss the path by which it might or might not be able to do that. At the end of the day it will it competing for resources with us. It doesn't get to do that for free anymore than we do.

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