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Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

independent.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#61

Post by Mikeb85 »

caycep wrote: post #58
Mikeb85 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lot of protesters are just TEENAGERS/STUDENTS who want a peaceful protest , and the crazy police are fully armed and used countless tear gas on them. The police must have taken a page from the Ferguson, MO playbook... Or maybe just Occupy Wall St....

Re Ferguson - I hope they didn't take a page from what was clearly one of the most inept police actions in recent history...one would think they were smarter than that.

Yeah of course they're smarter than that. Just pointing out that police over-reaction happens just as much over here as there (at least in the last decade). A few canisters of tear gas and riot gear is hardly unique to HK, pretty much every G8 protest ever is more violent...

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#62

Post by skrebbel »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #42
asdfologist wrote: post #14

Honest question: how effective are these sorts of protests in achieving their intended goals? Maybe I'm suffering from confirmation bias, but it seems all the major demonstrations in the last few decades (Tiananmen Square, Iraq War, Occupy Wall Street, post-Iranian election, etc) have sizzled out and failed. The one exception I can think of is the anti-Proposition 8 protests, but Prop 8 was defeated in the courts thr…

Okay, so this is not their intended goal, but this protest has probably been pretty effective in waking up Taiwan. It would be even more effective if the Taiwanese media wouldn't self-censor itself so brutally to avoid "trouble". (Look at the goddamn China Times, where the protests are the second-to-last dot in the slideshow!! http://www.chinatimes.com/ )

I don't know anything about Taiwan. Could you explain why these papers self-censor so heavily?

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#63

Post by yetanotherHNacc »

flipp wrote: post #57
wyuenho wrote: post #10

Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can…

I've been working on an application that might help with some of these issues. It allows protesters to communicate anonymously and securely in crowds using adhoc wifi/bluetooth and onion routing. Protest leaders can create a protest and add a password that spreads via word of mouth in the crowd and ideally isn't told to police/security forces. Leaders can designate lieutenants and the chat can be read-only to everyon…

This is very interesting.

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#64

Post by cluthe »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #56
cluthe wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not HK style, that's the corporate media's style, and you see it everywhere. The protesters have actually shown a lot of class - it's the police and government who need to show some class and have a more measured response to peaceful protests.

No worse than what US authorities did in 'Occupy' protests...

I don't understand this (American?) tendency to insist on comparing everything that happens in the world to what happens in the USA. It's almost as if you are expected to first check what USA has done, and then apply equal amounts of criticism to the USA for that, before you are then allowed to say anything on any topic.

Hongkongers and other people around the world, don't care about the USA. We don't feel the need to use USA as a benchmark when discussing issues in our own countries.

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#65

Post by [deleted] »

flipp wrote: post #57
wyuenho wrote: post #10

Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can…

I've been working on an application that might help with some of these issues. It allows protesters to communicate anonymously and securely in crowds using adhoc wifi/bluetooth and onion routing. Protest leaders can create a protest and add a password that spreads via word of mouth in the crowd and ideally isn't told to police/security forces. Leaders can designate lieutenants and the chat can be read-only to everyon…

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#66

Post by collyw »

briantakita wrote: post #30
samdk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing some big ones, I think. In the last few years protest movements have effected regime changes in Tunisia, Egypt, and Ukraine. Those transitions have been at all smooth, but it's hard to claim the protests in each of those cases weren't hugely influential. The protests in Ferguson, MO are still playing out so it's hard to say what exactly the effects will be, but I suspect not nothing. In Hong Kong prote…

At the climate change protest in NYC (over 300k in attendance), there seemed to be consensus & understanding of the necessary systemic change. A complaint about Occupy Wall Street is there was not much unity. There seems to be unity & respect among the groups now.

I heard that criticism about Occupy Wall Street.

Pretty pathetic, that because there are so may things that Occupy were complaining about, then they should just be ignored. (The real message was that people want a fairer more just system. I managed to get that, why did none of the critics work that out).

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#67

Post by lbo »

wyuenho wrote: post #10

Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can…

Lynk is a messaging app that uses Bluetooth to identify all other users around you and lets you direct message them or create group chats of any size.

It's not anonymous or mass group like Firechat, so you can tune in to trust-worthy sources of information and keep track of your friends or people you meet at the protest.

Does not use GPS to identify your location, and all traffic is encrypted over the wire. Does require a network connection, though.

Disclaimer: I'm co-founder of Lynk and was at the protests in HK last night. Happy to answer any questions for anybody interested in the tool.

http://www.lynkmessenger.com

edit: anyone in Hong Kong right now and interested in getting in touch, my email is in my profile

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#68

Post by [deleted] »

flipp wrote: post #57
wyuenho wrote: post #10

Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can…

I've been working on an application that might help with some of these issues. It allows protesters to communicate anonymously and securely in crowds using adhoc wifi/bluetooth and onion routing. Protest leaders can create a protest and add a password that spreads via word of mouth in the crowd and ideally isn't told to police/security forces. Leaders can designate lieutenants and the chat can be read-only to everyon…

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#69

Post by cluthe »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #55
wyuenho wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other alternatives do you have to suggest to fight for a true democracy?

Who has a 'true' democracy? In the US all candidates are vetted by business leaders and party backers, and 2 parties are hardly any more democratic than 1 big one...

A democratic system that is being abused is better than no system of democracy at all. There are many efforts in the USA to get money out of politics and try to get true democracy again. Those efforts are happening within a democratic system, that you seem to be taking for granted, of which Hong Kong and China do not have.

Re: Hong Kong protest: Why are pro-democracy supporters staging a sit-in?

#70

Post by wisty »

wyuenho wrote: post #10

Hongkonger here. I help out with a number of volunteer tech groups in HK, including a few resistance groups. I'm also on the Hong Kong Python User Group committee. We are hoping for the best but would like to prepare for the worst, so I'd like to ask fellow HNers here who have been in similar situations before: what can we expect to encounter in terms of disruptions in communications? Under those situations, how can…

Create a sneakernet. If you get a note, read it (don't talk to the person who handed it to you), then pass it on if you approve. In a city the density of Hong Kong, that's almost unstoppable.

Tech solutions won't work if they put you inside the Great Firewall, and force you to use MITMed HTTPS certs (blocking anything that looks like HTTPS). That last step is unlikely (since blocking or MITMing HTTPS would really hurt Hong Kong), but an alternative (a sneaker net) would be good to have, and render technical attacks less effective (so they might not even bother).

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