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Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

nytimes.com

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Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#61

Post by Zigurd »

csandreasen wrote: post #52

I think the big issue here isn't that Apple is now encrypting iPhones. In general, being able to secure the data on your phone is a huge benefit for the average consumer. People lose their phones all of the time, and you have no idea who is going to find your lost phone and what they're going to do with the data on it. Given the amount of sensitive data people throw on their phones without thinking, Apple is probably…

If you look at all the links on this thread to the moral panic various cops have been goaded into spewing, it's not like they aren't doing their part to make Apple's point.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#62

Post by mrweasel »

hahainternet wrote: post #41
krija wrote: post #9

This makes me extraordinarily happy, perhaps this is the first major step in the struggle against government spying on innocent citizens? On another note, is anyone disturbed by how even the idea of people being able to store their private data securely being seen as inherently criminal by high level officials? What does that say about these people in power, they literally view your right to privacy as dangerous. Sic…

> What does that say about these people in power, they literally view your right to privacy as dangerous. Sickening Your right to privacy is dangerous. Imagine trying to investigate a murder with unlimited privacy. Unless someone saw the killer kill, you've no chance.

Individual privacy rights isn't actually dangerous. It's neither a person secrets or even their beliefs that are dangerous, it's their actions.

Focusing on solving a murder and being willing to scarifies the privacy of everyone, even the people that are in no real danger is foolish. The billions of dollars spend on spying on regular people are mostly wasted. Taking the same money and directing them towards prevention may yield better results. I'm not talking about the kind of prevention where the FBI pick up some terrorist just before he's about to bomb something. I'm talking about the kind where we avoid that people become terrorists.

If companies and individuals make it impossible for the governments to spy on people infeasible we might get more focus on prevention.

Also, strip away the privacy of the murderer and you strip away the privacy for all of us, including those who fight oppressive regimes and dictatorships. That might not be a sensible tradeoff.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#63

Post by mhurron »

kaffeinecoma wrote: post #48

The new security in iOS 8 protects information stored on the device itself, but not data stored on iCloud, Apple’s cloud service. So Apple will still be able to obtain some customer information stored on iCloud in response to government requests. Some? I think the importance of this qualification has been overlooked everywhere it's been reported.

It has been reported everywhere I've seen it. It's pretty clear that it means Apple will be able to give information that you have let them give by storing it on iCloud.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#64

Post by ipsin »

So what are the actual rate limits on unlock code discovery?

If you're typing in passwords, it might take a while.

If you've disassembled and imaged the storage device, and have physical access to the hardware security module (HSM), does that improve your rate or ability to parallelize?

I've been a little annoyed at how the FBI (for itself and again as proxy for the NSA) is playing helpless, as if the Director of the NSA or FBI is going to be stuck tapping unlock codes into a suspect's phone while the countdown timer on a 100 mega-pedophile nuke ticks down, somewhere in The City.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#66

Post by 13throwaway »

SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #60

If I were the NSA, I would publicly ream Apple about the fact that I can't access the encrypted data on iPhones. I would privately thank them for putting in another backdoor that actually lets me read all the data I want from them. It's a win-win. Apple gets to look like a privacy crusader. The NSA gets access to all phones. And best of all, iPhone users get to believe that their phone is unhackable, so they won't ta…

How about the FBI? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/james-comey-apple-e...

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#67

Post by csandreasen »

Zigurd wrote: post #61
csandreasen wrote: post #52

I think the big issue here isn't that Apple is now encrypting iPhones. In general, being able to secure the data on your phone is a huge benefit for the average consumer. People lose their phones all of the time, and you have no idea who is going to find your lost phone and what they're going to do with the data on it. Given the amount of sensitive data people throw on their phones without thinking, Apple is probably…

If you look at all the links on this thread to the moral panic various cops have been goaded into spewing, it's not like they aren't doing their part to make Apple's point.

The cops have a point. I don't think the actual encryption is as big a deal now as people are making it out to be, but Apple is setting a precedent when they say "we're doing this so we don't have to comply with warrants" instead of saying "we're doing this to make our customers safer". Apple just sparked a debate (as much as I hate that term). If the cops don't make a stink out of it now and point out the necessity of warrants, things may likely get out of hand somewhere down the road.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#68

Post by lukeqsee »

huhtenberg wrote: post #56

The most important takeaway of the "post-Snowden Era" is that both companies and the government lie. Apple now is in the damage control mode, trying to undo the massive credibility hit dealt by Snowden revelations. But since they were in bed with the NSA for several years prior, I really doubt they have an option of divorce. If they were strong-armed into cooperation before, it'd be foolish to assume that they can ge…

> both companies and the government lie

And it's impossible for a 'normal' citizen to have an idea if and when they are. We simply have no clue or expertise to possibly pick apart statements made and then verify them—as you said in regards to initializing PRNGs. For example, most in the technical communities have no idea how PRNGs work, let alone how to test if they are true. I know I don't.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#69

Post by XorNot »

rohansingh wrote: post #57
chernevik wrote: post #35

James Comey, head of the FBI: "The notion that someone would market a closet that could never be opened — even if it involves a case involving a child kidnapper and a court order — to me does not make any sense." The whole point of our system is that this guy can be as ignorant and disrespectful of our liberties as he likes, without actually endangering our society. Which isn't to say that attitudes like his won't do…

The hilarious part about all this is that companies do market and sell closets that cannot be forcibly opened. This product is commonly known as a safe.

If you think a safe can't be opened by...practically any law enforcement agency quickly, then I don't know what to tell you.

I could talk about safe-cracking as an art, but I'd direct you to go look up a YouTube video a plasma cutter going through steel. The reality is most safes you buy commercially can be broken in under 30 minutes by an experience locksmith without such tools.

Re: Signaling Post-Snowden Era, New iPhone Locks Out N.S.A

#70

Post by XorNot »

mrweasel wrote: post #62
hahainternet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does that say about these people in power, they literally view your right to privacy as dangerous. Sickening Your right to privacy is dangerous. Imagine trying to investigate a murder with unlimited privacy. Unless someone saw the killer kill, you've no chance.

Individual privacy rights isn't actually dangerous. It's neither a person secrets or even their beliefs that are dangerous, it's their actions. Focusing on solving a murder and being willing to scarifies the privacy of everyone, even the people that are in no real danger is foolish. The billions of dollars spend on spying on regular people are mostly wasted. Taking the same money and directing them towards prevention…

Here's the problem: you can't prevent everything. So at the end of the day you still have to actually catch and stop some terrorists, and even in a perfect world it's likely you have to still catch and stop some who just won't be dissuaded.

It's notable that more elaborate terrorist attacks are not carried out by idiots - these are people who have gone to college, gotten degrees etc.

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