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Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

nytimes.com

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Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#61

Post by downandout »

grinich wrote: post #59
downandout wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to fire everyone. Yahoo made $38M net profit on operations last quarter. All they would have to do is maintain their current assets and employees and the owners get $160m/year in free cash. Then, using their effectively unlimited supply of capital in the form of Alibaba stock, they could make some very smart acquisitions (think for example of buying an instagram for $1b cash and growing it to what it is today…

Why don't you think Marisa is up to the task? She seems more than capable to me, and has done a remarkable job leading Yahoo so far.

From an IQ perspective, I think she is probably among the top 5 executives in the Valley - likely smarter than Sergey Brin or Larry Page, her former co-workers at Google. She's brilliant. I'm only going by her performance thus far - for whatever reason, most of her acquisitions have been blunders. There are valuable start-ups all around - it doesn't make sense to me that Yahoo can't find them. I realize that there is a negative perception surrounding Yahoo, but money is money and many teams will take the deal if enough is offered. It's also her responsibility to turn that negative perception around by making some smart, successful acquisitions.

I would never just write someone with her intellect off - but she does still have something to prove. Hopefully she can do it.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#62

Post by idlewords »

w1ntermute wrote: post #50
bane wrote: post #4

Gosh....that's barely more than WhatsApp. Woulda done better selling it to Facebook. More seriously, the Economist put a valuation at $55-$120b. This puts it at $168b. Or 9 WhatsApps. The IPO was expected to raise $20b, so this is really good. It took 3 years after founding in 1998 to reach profitability. It defies most conventional notions of a startup, despite having started in somebody's apartment. It's unbelievab…

> It's unbelievably unfocused, it does pretty much every kind of business you can do on the Internet. This is standard in China, as well as other Asian nations, which have high-context cultures[0]. People in high-context cultures value familiarity more than people in low-context cultures. What we see as a lack of focus is seen by Chinese consumers as part of Alibaba's value proposition. 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

This kind of Orientalist armchair psychology is standard in high-bullshit cultures like ours[1].

The reasons for Alibaba's success might have more to do with the unique political and economic conditions that obtain in China than any special feature of the Chinese consumer mind that makes them favor lack of focus.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#63

Post by jonny_eh »

jimbokun wrote: post #49
skuhn wrote: post #5

Alibaba going for a higher selling price just makes the continued undervaluing of Yahoo itself increasingly hilarious. At some point, I would think someone will want to buy them for all of this free money they have sitting around. YHOO market cap : 42.3bn + liabilities : 3.7bn = 46bn (to own outright) Meanwhile: Cash on hand = 1.1bn + Other assets = 15.3bn + Cash from Alibaba sale = 8.3bn + Value of remaining Alibaba…

This reminds me of when AAPL was getting close to the value of cash and assets, pre-Jobs return. Was the perfect time to buy AAPL, but of course not clear whether Yahoo has a Jobs at Apple kind of turnaround in them.

Until Mayer unveils a product as impressive as the iMac (or iPod), I wouldn't jump on that stock just yet.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#64

Post by _pmf_ »

skuhn wrote: post #60
downandout wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to fire everyone. Yahoo made $38M net profit on operations last quarter. All they would have to do is maintain their current assets and employees and the owners get $160m/year in free cash. Then, using their effectively unlimited supply of capital in the form of Alibaba stock, they could make some very smart acquisitions (think for example of buying an instagram for $1b cash and growing it to what it is today…

They do still have some smart people, but I don't think anyone or any amount of money can turn things around for them in any meaningful way. Their pre-Marissa acquisitions were almost universally wastes of time and money. It's too soon to tell about the recent acquisitions, but I don't see them making that $1bn back from Tumblr in my lifetime. Yahoo is an also ran, constantly playing catch up and trying to emulate th…

> But that will never happen at Yahoo, there is no will to make an excellent product for a technically demanding audience.

That seriously leads me to ask me what the fuck the engineers are actually doing there if they're not improving a core product.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#65

Post by piettro22 »

Well....you guys have to look at the bigger picture: Alibaba was rejected by HK stock market the first time around, then Jack decided to take it to NYSE. Of course 21B is nothing in comparison to the other big brothers like Facebook, but ask yourself this question: what really is Alibaba doing in China? For one, Alibaba is about trading on the international scene, and its seed Taobao is like eBay China version; then they are into car manufacturing as well, not to mention Alipay being the paypal of modern day China....clearly, that 21B he raised can't even cover a lot of the expenditures for development. What Jack really is doing is to get his company that global recognition. Any of you can name ONE brand/company that based in China on top of your head? Well, that's what Jack is trying to do. You think he's unfocused? How about this: for someone who owns the e-commerce platform of the world's 3rd biggest country, he is utterly focused on becoming "China's international brand." Don't forget, China is the jumping board, and Jack is the pioneer. Once he claimed first, who will remember the ones from the subsequent ranks?

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#66

Post by netcan »

bane wrote: post #4

Gosh....that's barely more than WhatsApp. Woulda done better selling it to Facebook. More seriously, the Economist put a valuation at $55-$120b. This puts it at $168b. Or 9 WhatsApps. The IPO was expected to raise $20b, so this is really good. It took 3 years after founding in 1998 to reach profitability. It defies most conventional notions of a startup, despite having started in somebody's apartment. It's unbelievab…

$20b is money raised. The market cap is expectd to be 160-$200bn, almost half the size of Google.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#67

Post by adventured »

samstave wrote: post #45
xux wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It defies most conventional notions of a startup... It's unbelievably unfocused, it does pretty much every kind of business you can do on the Internet. It defies the Silicon Valley notion of startup. China's internet market is still new, and Alibaba is like Yahoo in the old days - it does everything online. Hopefully it doesn't turn out like Yahoo.

It sells more product than both ebay and amazon combined.

While we're having fun with numbers that don't make much sense to compare given the differences in businesses...

Apple generates ~1,000% more net income than Alibaba (projected 2014).

Amazon has about ~900% more revenue than Alibaba.

Apple has about ~2,000% more revenue than Alibaba.

eBay does 100% more in revenue than Alibaba

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#68

Post by adventured »

skuhn wrote: post #5

Alibaba going for a higher selling price just makes the continued undervaluing of Yahoo itself increasingly hilarious. At some point, I would think someone will want to buy them for all of this free money they have sitting around. YHOO market cap : 42.3bn + liabilities : 3.7bn = 46bn (to own outright) Meanwhile: Cash on hand = 1.1bn + Other assets = 15.3bn + Cash from Alibaba sale = 8.3bn + Value of remaining Alibaba…

You can't pay face value on an acquisition of a company like Yahoo.

Try adding about 25% to 40% as a premium.

There went your calculated profit.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#69

Post by adventured »

harryh wrote: post #42
imaginenore wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPO is a special event. You can't compare it to a regular stock state.

1) First off, what's so different about an IPO? The road show? Please. Investors aren't plunking down ~20B for a piece of Alibaba 'cause of a slick powerpoint presentation. 2) Secondly, companies routinely do secondary sales in which they sell stakes of themselves far in excess of 0.1%.

Secondary offerings are not routine for any given business, even if they occur regularly in the broad market among thousands of companies.

It's rare for a company to do a secondary offering.

Re: Alibaba Raises $21.8B in Initial Public Offering

#70

Post by hbbio »

xux wrote: post #28
bane wrote: post #4

Gosh....that's barely more than WhatsApp. Woulda done better selling it to Facebook. More seriously, the Economist put a valuation at $55-$120b. This puts it at $168b. Or 9 WhatsApps. The IPO was expected to raise $20b, so this is really good. It took 3 years after founding in 1998 to reach profitability. It defies most conventional notions of a startup, despite having started in somebody's apartment. It's unbelievab…

>It defies most conventional notions of a startup... It's unbelievably unfocused, it does pretty much every kind of business you can do on the Internet. It defies the Silicon Valley notion of startup. China's internet market is still new, and Alibaba is like Yahoo in the old days - it does everything online. Hopefully it doesn't turn out like Yahoo.

It doesn't turn like Yahoo.

Yahoo made the super wise decision to buy part of Alibaba a few years ago, and now the whole Yahoo is worth nothing more than its share of Alibaba!

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