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If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

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Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#61

Bootstrapping my start-ups while working 9 to 5 on site consulting jobs has proved frustrating! All those who brought me on knew explicitly of my start-ups and yet my consulting gigs never lasted more then a year. Which has been frustrating because my bosses and I befriend each other during the course of the year, but end up turning on me due to office politics. Sigh! Well im starting a remote consulting gig, which i…

> be far away from office politics. heh. it may actually be worse , because being remote adds a new dynamic to all the politics. Good luck.

It's a work as many hours as I like and need to and they don't own or have rights to my start-up companies nor can later profit from them.

I made it clear to them I am working towards raising money for my start-up and will be able to work a few days a week (weekends included).

My focus is turn in solid/perfect work and rinse and repeat. Not try and worry about trying to create friendships/getting the right people to like me.

I am likable and have a good amount of friends, but when your doing more then just the 9 to 5 and getting visible attention for it, it seems to effect people negatively towards me. So goodbye office politics and thankfully their office is 4 hours away from home.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#62
I've been doing my startup and have been working in companies on and off on the side and to be honest I have a quite strong opinion towards the point of view that people need to collect experience in a company before starting their company. I think this is really bad. More specifically, every single day that you work at a company

1. The likelihood of you starting a company and the final size of your company decreases, because every day you learn more about what's not possible. Your mind becomes more restricted and corporate experience will certainly not encourage you to invent Snapchat, Facebook, Twitter, Uber. These ideas can only be done by people who have NO restrictions whatsoever in their minds, who think everything is possible. Corporate life will prevent you from having these ideas and that is why I want to prevent working in a company by all means as long as I can. Which brings us to our second point.

2. You get more used to corporate life, which includes receiving a pay-check, which is mostly not based on how much money you made the company, adapting your personality so that you are good in company politics, so that you look good, so that you get promoted, but that's actually not good for the company. These learnings are very bad for starting a company.

3. You come closer to having kids. I think having kids is probably the biggest factor preventing people from starting companies. Having kids is almost like starting a company, they are your own startup, so having 2 startups is near to impossible.

There is some merit in working at a company, to learn about how politics are weaved into corporate life. This helps you to understand that when you need to sell to a larger company that the person you are selling to care much more about how they look by buying your product than how good your product actually is for his/her company.

This is why working 6 months does have value, which is how long it usually takes to understand how company politics work. However everything more than 6 months will reduce your capability in starting your own startup, every single day.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#63
post #8
post #2

Very informative and amusing post. My favorite statistic was the 18% of entrepreneurs succeed the first time, and only 20% succeed the second time. > The sort of person who jumps in and gives advice to the masses without doing a lot of research first generally believes that you should jump in and do things without doing a lot of research first. Like most good polemics, this one probably overstates the case. It seems…

>My favorite statistic was the 18% of entrepreneurs succeed the first time, and only 20% succeed the second time. This is a potentially misleading stat. The second cohort only includes the failures. So clearly at least some of them learned something. It's a 36% total success rate for entrepreneurs who try twice. (Though I guess that number is missing those that try once and don't try again)

Who's to say that the 36% one is not a potentially misleading stat?

Assuming the 18%/20% stats are correct, it is a 34.4% success rate from the 18% and 20% stat.

The 36% stat may not be out of the realm of possibility with the difference in values here - there may be context missing from all the numbers cited here. They don't seem to disagree with each other significantly though.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#64
post #57

Article is confusing "startup" with "small business", if your field and your methods are old enough to be tried-and-true then, yes, by all means, apprentice yourself and learn the ropes. After spending the 7 or so years working in a social-networking company, you too can create another stable small-business in social-networking that (for example) staggers users' twitter posts or sells slightly ridiculous shirts to fa…

"e.g. you're mining titanium from the moon using gravity fields, you're desalinating sea water"

The fundamental disconnect here is that while there are some "startups" that actually do novel things, most are more like "build some ruby on rails app that does XYZ thing that has always been done, but do it on computers, and maybe cheaper than the big guy can by just ignoring existing regulations until we get big enough that anyone cares".

And then you wind up with a startup company probably full of 20 year olds who are smart and driven but haven't yet seen the hundreds of ways in which they can paint themselves into a corner with bad software practices which creates this negative feedback loop where everyone is working 80-120 hours spinning their wheels trying to get shit to "just work" whereas if they had more experienced technical talent (say people who have worked on highly scalable software at google or microsoft or whoever for 5 years) who have already "seen some shit", they would likely have much higher quality at a fraction of the development time.

(And while the salaries for experienced folks would have to be higher per employee, they could get by with a lot less of them and still have better code).

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#65
post #60

I don't understand this. If you want to do a startup, just do it. Do it before you have a bunch of excuses for why you shouldn't.

"Just do it"... but have a fallback plan for when you will, statistically, almost inevitably fail.

Granted, if you're on the technical side (and in SV or another "tech hub") then the fallback plan is usually "get a job with someone else within a couple of days of starting to look", but for that to be a reasonable fallback plan you still need to be careful during your startup time to not take on lots of personal debt, etc.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#66
post #51

I've done both - worked for 2 other people's startups, founded my own, worked 5+ years at Google, now founding another. My experience is that you learn something from both, but you learn different things from each, and which will teach you more depends on what skills you need to learn. Working for someone else's startup, I learned how to quickly cobble solutions together. I learned about uncertainty and picking a dir…

This is a great comment, thank you! > I learned that most startups fail, and that when they fail, the people who end up doing well are the ones who were looking out for their own interests all along. Can you elaborate on this? How were people "looking out for their own interests", and how did it end up helping them? Could the founders have done things differently to make the outcome more equitable? Thanks!

Not to speak for the comment you are replying to, but in my experience it likely means that those that worried more about the startup than themselves ended up worse off than those that looked out for there own best interests first.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#67
post #44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the author: - 18% success rate for time founders - 20% success rate after that ... so just trying 5 times should assure 1 success. Not according to the Binomial theorem. For a success probability of .2 per independent trial and a binary outcome (i.e. success or failure, no intermediate states): Trials Probability of >= 1 successes ------------------------------------- 1 .20 2 .36 3 .38 4 .48 5 .67 10 .…

These aren't independent events. The OP may be right, but for the wrong reasons.

> These aren't independent events.

I agree. There are a number of ways this could be true -- a person has more experience, is more likely to succeed in later tries because of being seasoned -- or might even be so discouraged by a first failure that he is then programmed to fail. But to a first approximation, the tries are independent. It only shows the limited applicability of theoretical analyses to real-world events.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#68

I've done both - worked for 2 other people's startups, founded my own, worked 5+ years at Google, now founding another. My experience is that you learn something from both, but you learn different things from each, and which will teach you more depends on what skills you need to learn. Working for someone else's startup, I learned how to quickly cobble solutions together. I learned about uncertainty and picking a dir…

I really like your introspection. I have read a lot of articles about startups (never started one, not even close). Given you summary here, I would definitely pay to read more of your insights.

Please write more down. I am sure I am not the only one who would wait in line to pay for it.

And do please fix the URL in your profile.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#69
post #51

I've done both - worked for 2 other people's startups, founded my own, worked 5+ years at Google, now founding another. My experience is that you learn something from both, but you learn different things from each, and which will teach you more depends on what skills you need to learn. Working for someone else's startup, I learned how to quickly cobble solutions together. I learned about uncertainty and picking a dir…

This is a great comment, thank you! > I learned that most startups fail, and that when they fail, the people who end up doing well are the ones who were looking out for their own interests all along. Can you elaborate on this? How were people "looking out for their own interests", and how did it end up helping them? Could the founders have done things differently to make the outcome more equitable? Thanks!

Also not the person you are replying to, but I have my own experience with this.

Basically the people who leave a failing firm early do better than those who stick around until the money runs out. They find better jobs faster because they're not competing with a bunch of their former coworkers, they don't have a gap in their employment to explain, and they don't have to answer the question of why they stayed when they should have known the company was failing. If you find yourself in this situation and you think that loyalty has any value, think again.

Re: If you want to start a startup, go work for someone else

#70

I've done both - worked for 2 other people's startups, founded my own, worked 5+ years at Google, now founding another. My experience is that you learn something from both, but you learn different things from each, and which will teach you more depends on what skills you need to learn. Working for someone else's startup, I learned how to quickly cobble solutions together. I learned about uncertainty and picking a dir…

I think the three reasons entrepreneurs so often give the advise to just "go do it" is that a) the biggest barrier they faced to their own success was the psychological barrier to actually committing to taking the plunge and b) the key to their success was in taking an unconventional approach to at least some aspect of their business and c) they no doubt set off in a bunch wrong directions that had to be corrected, and the only way to learn that was to make those mistakes.

The catch is that while by nature we are risk-averse, there is a degree of reflection that would definitely improve your chances of success. While big wins tend to require unconventional approaches, you can't just break rules at random: you need to understand the rules and the reasons behind them better than everyone else. Finally, mistakes are a key part of entrepreneurship, but learning from them is essential, and that second part is harder than successful entrepreneurs appreciate (because to be successful, you've had to put together a pretty impressive track record of learning from mistakes). Experience is key to interpreting events to learn the right lesson.

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