Earlier quoted context omitted.
Think about it. You're saying that the USA spies on all non-US internet traffic. Does that make any sense? Is there any evidence? No and no.
"Yes[1,3] and yes[2]. Have you been in a cave for the past two years?" Yes, the NSA can monitor specific targets. Do they monitor all Internet traffic worldwide? No, such a task is absurd and technically impossible. However I have learned that people's opinions about the NSA are faith-based, and not open to reasoned arguments.
The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
61–70 of 94 posts
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Non-US citizens are considered less than humans. To be fair, the same holds to some degree also for lots of kinds of US citizens/residents (blacks, latinos, native americans, etc).
The race card isn't playable here. The computers collecting the data don't know what race the people being monitored belong to.
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hacker aged over 24 here. Sure, we all knew. But it's one thing to "know", it's another entirely to have tangible proof. Whenever I spoke about this to people 10 years ago the reaction was "there's no proof, you're paranoid, you're a conspiracy theorist". Now we have proof the reaction is "so what, everyone knows that, I have nothing to hide". There's some serious goalpost shifting happening here.
Isn't that one of the worst things to come of the Snowden leaks so far? There aren't many conspiracy theories I can, with full conviction, point at and laugh anymore. Maybe reptile people in government. But otherwise...
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#64This quote struck me: "After the United States faced another existential threat in the immediate aftermath of the September 11 attacks...." I'm amazed at how accepting the media is of the threat of terrorism. That statement implicitly compares al Qaeda to the Soviets. The Soviets who, if they had had a bad day and decided to say "screw it" and wipe out capitalism for good could have done so within an hour. A country…
But we never learn. The best thing that could happen right now for the NSA and the military in the mist of this criticism is another attack on US land, the former will say " see! This is why we need to spy today more than ever! " and the military would get another major money injection for decades to come and it gets to invade any country where they think the enemy might be.
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#65You can't make this stuff up. According to TFA: 1. CIA created black propaganda in USSR linking Soviets and international terrorists to foment dissent in Russia. 2. Somebody picked it up from outside and wrote a book about Soviet-terrorism links. 3. CIA director read the book, took it seriously, freaked out, lobbied for more powers. 4. CIA and NSA got more powers. It's clearly not the first time in history that an in…
These are not, I should stress, the strangest people who held influence over the intelligence community in those days.
The official CIA judgement on the matter was more qualified, pointing out that the USSR supported "national insurgencies and some separatist-irredentist groups," but did not directly support terror groups (although they did support states like Libya that, in turn, supported and directed terror operations): "[T]he terrorist activities of these groups are not coordinated by the Soviets. The Soviets have on occasion privately characterized certain nihilistic terrorism as 'criminal,' and have urged other revolutionary groups to cease and desist from terrorist acts the Soviets considered 'self-defeating.'"
One certainly could point out that US support for groups like the Afghan mujahideen and the Pakistani government, the Central American Contras and their narco-trafficking allies, and right-wing "Gladio" networks in Europe would have, from the banks of the Moskva, looked a lot like US support for terrorism as well.
But CIA's considered analysis was basically ignored by senior political leadership, including CIA director Bill Casey, and a pervasive and almost hysterical suspicion of the Soviet leadership overshadowed US foreign policy for most of the 1980s, resulting in lost diplomatic opportunities and a few close calls with general war.
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I pay my government to spy on people in other countries to make sure they are not going to hurt me. And, more to the point, they aren't going to put in motion things that are could conceivably hurt me or those I care about. I hate the security state, but I'm okay with that. We've got hundred of millions of people here. There are billions of people in the world. It makes sense to me to spy on all the folks in other co…
> "It makes sense to me to spy on all the folks in other countries. I don't see how else you would honestly do a good job of governing." You've equated spying on me with good governance. This is fallacious (as well as offensive). I am not a threat to you or your country. Targeted surveillance is one thing but collating data on everyone just because you can is wrong. In some sense it flips the 'innocent until proven g…
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Non-US citizens are considered less than humans. To be fair, the same holds to some degree also for lots of kinds of US citizens/residents (blacks, latinos, native americans, etc).
The race card isn't playable here. The computers collecting the data don't know what race the people being monitored belong to.
Still it's trivial to have algorithms to identify the race of the people they have data (heck, even just "call metadata" for). To give an obvious (if slightly non-PC example, if you're from a specific part of Baltimore and you're called Jermaine, you're in all probability Black). And Jesus Mandolito in Southern California is probably latino. And of course they can cross-corellate with databases, like social security info, police records, birth certificates, and the like.
Plus, not every population / race is targeted equally. Consider Middle-easterns vs Icelandish people for example. And not everyone is them is an equal target for later data use.
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#68http://graemeshimmin.com/william-le-queux-and-british-spying...
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of 5 examples you managed to get 3/5 having something to do with the NSA or related matters (encryption, which got explicitly tied to the NSA in that exact comment). I would question why you think this is a "gotcha" given that I know how far back my post history goes (further then the initial Snowden disclosures for example), and more or less gave up on these topic-threads for exactly this reason. Which circles aroun…
So I was being somehow unfair in checking your post history, when you explicitly said to check your post history? Next five before that are: turning off power in nuclear plant bitcoin funds transfer advice on drinking water theories on OSS encryption of metadata This isn't a 'gotcha', just pointing out that you are repeatedly bullshitting about things that are easily verifiable. And idly wondering why. edit - Hang on…
It isn't and you know it.
EDIT: And that search engine definitely isn't fully indexed. But a search for me and pointsEDIT 2: Though to spin this around for a moment, that is handy utility - thanks!
Re: The executive order that led to mass spying, as told by NSA alumni
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because if you don't tow the party line on HN you'll be downvoted no matter what. Frankly, go check my post history on the matter if you want. The only topic on which I manage to accumulate downvotes is Snowden/NSA related. Doesn't much matter what the content or argument or tone is or was. Though I do chuckle at "disprove the speculation".
"The only topic on which I manage to accumulate downvotes is Snowden/NSA related." Indeed, I got -40 karma on this story. Dissenting opinions are not tolerated on NSA stories. Therefore people who do not agree with the HN consensus "self-censor", and a vicious circle is created, with only a single narrative displayed.
Tell me about it. Plus all my proofs for perpetual motion machines and the flat earth get downvoted too.