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Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

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Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#61

Post by ChuckMcM »

kjksf wrote: post #44
tptacek wrote: post #28

I probably don't agree with Sandvik about Google's complicity, but that doesn't matter. Silencing her to accommodate a company sponsor is both unethical and counterproductive. There are forms of criticism that are intrinsically not compatible with being a director. If Sandvik was criticizing Google's participation with "Code Club" or making claims directly relevant to the project, that would be germane to the board.…

It doesn't matter that what she says is a lie? It's interesting how you twist yourself into a pretzel (you "probably", maybe, a little bit, think that what she says about the sponsor is a lie) to end up with the conclusion that her actions are somehow justified and the board is committing some terrible crime of censorship. The validity of her complains is very much the core of the issue. She only gave one example (th…

   > It doesn't matter that what she says is a lie?
That statement makes it sound like you have additional information about this situation. If that is the case would you care to share it?

I have observed that there are at least two weighting components to an opinion, the person and the person's position. The same opinion uttered by a programmer at corporation X has different weight than when it is uttered by the CEO of the corporation. I have also observed that it can constrain the ability of highly opinionated people to achieve positions of higher authority.

So without an understanding of what the statements were, and what her basis was for making those statements, and even the context in which the statements were made. It is not possible to judge the appropriateness of her actions.

That said, I have spoken to many managers who have been chastised at some point in their career for expressing negative opinions about entities that were important to the organization (sponsors, customers, investors, Etc.) How folks internalize that feedback varies from individual to individual.

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#62

Post by ascendantlogic »

facepalm wrote: post #56
ascendantlogic wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to. But if a sponsor is doing something that someone fundamentally disagrees with, they shouldn't be told to shut their mouths so the money keeps rolling in. That's called corruption.

Um no that is not called corruption. Corruption is siphoning away money and other perks in an illegal way.

Compromising your beliefs for money is a form of corruption. It's just one that people are forced to do every day to varying degrees.

From Wikipedia[1]: 'In philosophical, theological, or moral discussions, corruption is spiritual or moral impurity or deviation from an ideal. Corruption may include many activities including bribery and embezzlement.'

Keeping your mouth shut in exchange for sponsorship money sounds a bit like bribery to me.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#63

Post by chipotle_coyote »

facepalm wrote: post #53
viraptor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be always able to criticise companies/organisations you depend on. Otherwise, why would they improve anything for you? Taking an example on a bigger scale: you should be able to openly criticise some actions of the government, even if you're receiving benefits.

Are you employed? Could you tell us some things you really dislike about your company? (Giving your real name and your employers real name) Rolling with the government example: should the government be obliged to fund communists (or other people who think the current government is evil)?

The government funds people who think the current government is evil all the time. They don't fund them because they think the current government is evil, but I can assure you that there are people receiving unemployment benefits, social security, and other "entitlement program" checks that disagree loudly and publicly with the government all the time. (Some of them are probably critical of the same entitlement programs they rely on.)

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#64

Post by wglb »

kjksf wrote: post #44
tptacek wrote: post #28

I probably don't agree with Sandvik about Google's complicity, but that doesn't matter. Silencing her to accommodate a company sponsor is both unethical and counterproductive. There are forms of criticism that are intrinsically not compatible with being a director. If Sandvik was criticizing Google's participation with "Code Club" or making claims directly relevant to the project, that would be germane to the board.…

It doesn't matter that what she says is a lie? It's interesting how you twist yourself into a pretzel (you "probably", maybe, a little bit, think that what she says about the sponsor is a lie) to end up with the conclusion that her actions are somehow justified and the board is committing some terrible crime of censorship. The validity of her complains is very much the core of the issue. She only gave one example (th…

If it is her opinion, how can it be a lie?

On the other side of it, she was asked to say As a member of the board I am completely aligned with that view which would in fact be a lie.

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#65

Post by bowlofpetunias »

tptacek wrote: post #28

I probably don't agree with Sandvik about Google's complicity, but that doesn't matter. Silencing her to accommodate a company sponsor is both unethical and counterproductive. There are forms of criticism that are intrinsically not compatible with being a director. If Sandvik was criticizing Google's participation with "Code Club" or making claims directly relevant to the project, that would be germane to the board.…

Wait, what do you mean by "complicity"?

Mass surveillance and the large scale violation of privacy is Google's core business model. I was assuming she was referring to that, and not any NSA-related conspiracy allegations. (And although this may be coincidental, Google recently announced they will be targeting children, circumventing the law by tempting parents into consenting.)

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#66

Post by Alupis »

pistle wrote: post #41
kghose wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I agree with you. Your professional platform is not the same as your personal platform. The courses of action should have been 1. Resign from company and then air personal views (as explicitly personal) 2. Air personal views separately but say explicitly these are personal views. 3. Discuss matter in the board and come up with company approved policy statement - we will no longer do business with Google etc.…

2 & 3 are essentially not realistic once the funding faucet is turned on. 1 is your only hope - and she did it. Good for her.

Well, she did it before resigning, which is pretty unprofessional imho.

I say this because, a Director position is a pretty "in-the-spotlight" position to hold, and therefore anything you say reflects on your company even if you state they are personal views.

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#67

Post by Alupis »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #61
kjksf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter that what she says is a lie? It's interesting how you twist yourself into a pretzel (you "probably", maybe, a little bit, think that what she says about the sponsor is a lie) to end up with the conclusion that her actions are somehow justified and the board is committing some terrible crime of censorship. The validity of her complains is very much the core of the issue. She only gave one example (th…

> It doesn't matter that what she says is a lie? That statement makes it sound like you have additional information about this situation. If that is the case would you care to share it? I have observed that there are at least two weighting components to an opinion, the person and the person's position. The same opinion uttered by a programmer at corporation X has different weight than when it is uttered by the CEO of…

> That statement makes it sound like you have additional information about this situation. If that is the case would you care to share it?

With no additional information available, it is not logical to jump to extreme conclusions, in either direction. If anything, you should assume they don't rather than they do (you know, the entire not-guilty until proven thing)

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#68

Post by erikpukinskis »

viraptor wrote: post #17
facepalm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a sponsor finance a project that tells people the sponsor is evil? I don't really see the problem here. Two parties disagree, so they go separate ways. End of story.

You should be always able to criticise companies/organisations you depend on. Otherwise, why would they improve anything for you? Taking an example on a bigger scale: you should be able to openly criticise some actions of the government, even if you're receiving benefits.

What's wrong with people in your community taking about the ways you are bad? If there isn't consensus about your goodness, that means you are either bring bad in ways you don't understand or you're being good in ways your community doesn't understand. Either way keeping a conversation going is a big party of the solution. Shutting down the conversion seems like a surefire way to make your relationship with your community worse.

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#69

Post by amorphid »

slantyyz wrote: post #43
timigen wrote: post #10

The Code Club board just taught their students a very important life lesson about what happens when you stand up for whats right.

I'm not sure I understand what the life lesson is. In my mind, the battle with the board should be "either we drop the evildoing sponsors or I quit", not "I want evildoing sponsors' money but I still want to retain the right to criticize them or I quit".

I was on the board of my own company, along with my partner, and an outsider. I learned the role of a board is to represent the interests of the shareholders. If the company CEO is publically undermining the company's partners, which may threaten the company's finances, the board MUST deal with the CEO. Telling the CEO to knock it off or resign was the correct approach in my decision. The CEO's role does not allow for speaking personal opinions that conflict with the company's overall health.

I Code Club's board for taking a stand, and respect her for resigning.

Re: Linda Sandvik Resigns As Director Of Code Club

#70

Post by peterwwillis »

When Google tracking its [voluntary] users's activities on the internet becomes human rights violations, the internet's social justice outrage machine has jumped the shark.

Bad-mouthing your sponsors is pretty universally considered a business faux pas. I don't see how it's either unusual or unethical to keep your opinions to yourself when the funding for your organization is on the line. That said, there's nothing wrong with caring about free speech more than teaching children to code. People are entitled to their priorities, after all.

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