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Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

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Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#61

Post by wutbrodo »

jeffdavis wrote: post #56
Nogwater wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a problem to have 300 million people follow the same set of laws, but it's okay to have 38 million people with the same laws? Or maybe California is too big to be a viable state too? Maybe 6 million is the right magic number, and that's why Singapore is still okay? Or maybe 3 million would be better (like Mississippi.)? Then again, the founding fathers knew best (right?) and the largest colony/state at that…

I agree that there's no magic number, but I think we dramatically err on the side of centralization, so cutting it down by an order of magnitude is fine by me. And states do have a general character/culture -- consider the differences between California and Arizona or Nevada. Also, the borders aren't arbitrary: there are governmental structures that have built up and settled over centuries. Really, I think there's no…

> And states do have a general character/culture -- consider the differences between California and Arizona or Nevada.

IMO this isn't true now, and it's demonstrably been getting less and less true in recent years[1]. The claim that states seem like they have different cultures if you consider it isn't really helpful either: The human brain loves imposing structure on things, so if you claim that a certain area is a single entity, naturally one's tendency is to think of things as "Californian" or "Arizonan", etc. In much the same way, one thinks of an Italian living on the French border as ethnically Italian, and a guy living a few miles away as ethnically French. Drawing arbitrary lines is convenient enough, but pretending there's any sound reason behind these distinctions is silly (look at the recent history of Central/Eastern Europe to see exactly how arbitrary state lines are).

[1] I'm referring specifically to the fact that it's a well-studied phenomenon that the urban/suburban/rural divide in culture+values is becoming a lot more significant than the state-to-state ones.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#62

Post by Broken_Hippo »

jeffdavis wrote: post #58
grecy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Singapore doesn't nees the same drug laws as California. Mississippi doesn't need the same minimum wage as Massachusetts. You call that "united"? We were just talking about why that approach sucks here in Canada for health care. The cost of health care is paid for by the province (state) you live in. Once you're not in that province for 3 months, they won't pay for it, so you have to register in the new province. T…

"You call that "united"?" "Union" and "United" are the same word, so you could make an equal criticism of the EU for not being "united" enough because laws happen to vary between Germany and Spain. What if some bureaucrat decided to move your family and 10 others (from radically different cultures) into big house? You can all agree on who cleans what common areas at what times, who cooks, what pets everyone can have,…

There are vast differences between the EU and the interaction with states and federal government. Everyone views other countries as just that - other countries. The government systems even vary. The thing is that no one looks at states as countries. People state their nationality as American, not Hoosier or .. um.. whatever else locals name themselves. Most Americans fully expect free travel without worry of arrest throughout the entire US. An arrest, even without a conviction, can cause someone to lose their livelyhood.

And it IS important to protect the minority, but that is different laws: sometimes having basic federal laws to protect the minority is most definitely needed as I don't trust states to do it themselves, especially in places with a voter base intent on keeping things 'traditional' over making sure people are free enough to be happy.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#63

Post by cloakanddagger »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #49
themartorana wrote: post #4

Marijuana laws are much like gun laws - you live in the US, but legal activity in one place is a felony worthy of decades in prison a few miles away - in the same country. It's mind-numbing that a citizen of the US would have to know 50 sets of laws just to travel around their own country.

You live in the EU, but legal activity in one place is a felony worthy of decades in prison a few miles away - in the same political union. It's mind numbing that a citizen of the EU would have to know 26 sets of laws just to travel around the Schengen Area. "States" in the American sense have nearly all of the powers and differences that "Countries" have in europe. Each one is as large as a european country, and nea…

Please keep in mind you are comparing a continent to a country. So no, north america has not 'figured out' the unified currency & freedom of traveling thing nor the bickering.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#64

Post by bronbron »

jeffdavis wrote: post #53
bronbron wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who don't know, laws are different, sometimes in major ways, when you cross a state line That seems like a recipe for a huge disaster that we should rectify. It's incredibly easy to cross state lines without purposely intending to, especially in the northeast (e.g. you can easily be ushered into NJ trying to get to upstate NY through NYC). It's exactly why 'safe passage' laws exist, even if it doesn't app…

"That seems like a recipe for a huge disaster that we should rectify." Not nearly as much of a disaster as trying to get different kinds of people to agree to the same laws at the same time. Sure, it all sounds great and harmonious when you imagine it, because you imagine all of the laws being what you want. What is your feeling about open carry laws? Someone comes from another state wearing their gun collection into…

> trying to get different kinds of people to agree to the same laws at the same time.

That seems inevitable, even two people won't agree on an entire body of laws.

> What is your feeling about open carry laws? Someone comes from another state wearing their gun collection into the grocery store, and they think your state's laws against it are picky and burdensome.

The same as I feel about the individuals in the article transporting marijuana - it's, at worst, a civil matter. A small fine, possibly of increasing amounts for repeated violations, is appropriate if the individual wasn't merely passing through your state (as would've been appropriate for the individuals in the article).

Imprisonment for accidentally staying on the interstate too long is silly. It's incredibly easy to make a mistake and end up in another state - rarely as easy to enter another country by mistake.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#65

Post by bronbron »

tjohns wrote: post #48
bronbron wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who don't know, laws are different, sometimes in major ways, when you cross a state line That seems like a recipe for a huge disaster that we should rectify. It's incredibly easy to cross state lines without purposely intending to, especially in the northeast (e.g. you can easily be ushered into NJ trying to get to upstate NY through NYC). It's exactly why 'safe passage' laws exist, even if it doesn't app…

Actually, California has precisely that. Shortly after driving across the California border, you'll usually find an agricultural checkpoint or "Border Protection Station". Their focus is mainly on agricultural products, but they're there to get you to dispose of (plant/animal-based) materials that violate CA law. http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/plant/pe/ExteriorExclusion/borders.ht...

Interesting! Certainly seems to be the exception, but good to know nonetheless.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#66

Post by mikeash »

jeffdavis wrote: post #38

The US Constitution makes states almost like countries. For those who don't know, laws are different, sometimes in major ways, when you cross a state line. And that's just fine. A big problem in politics is trying to push 300M people to all follow the same set of laws. That's how we ended up with illegal marijuana in the first place. Vote for what you believe in in your state, and leave the rest alone. Singapore does…

"Leave the rest alone" is a massive failure as a blanket statement.

There are some things that should be enforced for everybody, like basic human rights. And there are some things that should be left up to more local governments. But where do you draw the line? There are no easy answers.

The standard example out of US history is, of course, slavery. Would you apply your "leave the rest alone" there? If so, I disagree in the most strenuous manner possible. If not, what makes slavery different from, say, drug laws?

The US Constitution makes states almost like countries, but exactly where the line is drawn has been an extremely contentious issue since before the Constitution was even written, and has remained so up to the present day and for the foreseeable future.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#67

Post by mikeash »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #31
mikestew wrote: post #5

As already pointed out in another comment, don't volunteer that you have pot on you. At least make 'em work for it. Oh, you were thinking they were going to go easier on you? It doesn't work that way. On the one hand, yes, current marijuana laws in most states and at the federal level are ridiculous and unproductive. On the other hand, as a Washington resident what do you think I left at home on a recent motorcycle t…

>>> As already pointed out in another comment, don't volunteer that you have pot on you. At least make 'em work for it. Oh, you were thinking they were going to go easier on you? It doesn't work that way. Actually it does. I've had several incidents in states where medical marijuana is legal, but you have to have a card. Possession without the card is illegal. Both times we were up front with the cop and he thanked u…

In the several incidents you cite, how would the cop have found your weed if you hadn't been up front about it?

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#68

Post by mikeash »

internet2pac wrote: post #11
brianbreslin wrote: post #8

It says 14% of americans smoke pot. I think that sounds accurate. That is 44 MILLION people in case you were wondering.

That is impossible and does not even pass a basic math. 317,493,212 is the current population. If you discard people under 15 and over 70 you are left with the you have (219685604) that means 20% of the US smoke pot. Pot people always like to over inflate the usage number, but 14% too funny. Even in states where its legal, it would not reach 20%.

I bet if I said that 14% of the US population drinks alcohol, you'd say it was way too low.

What about your "basic math" argument applies to pot but not alcohol?

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#69

Post by mikeash »

lfuller wrote: post #17

I'll never understand the logic behind this. How come cancer patients or people recovering from surgery with powerful opiates aren't thrown in prison? Why is possessing a chemical used medically a crime? (This is mostly rhetorical, but still sad.)

The law says that opiates are legal to use medically if the right conditions are fulfilled. The law provides no legal uses for marijuana. That's why cancer and surgery patients don't get thrown in jail for using opiates.

If you're asking about the logic behind the law, don't. Looking for logic in politics is a fast way to the crazy house.

Re: Marijuana Law Mayhem Splits U.S. In Two as Travelers Get Busted

#70

Post by internet2pac »

Retric wrote: post #19
internet2pac wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is impossible and does not even pass a basic math. 317,493,212 is the current population. If you discard people under 15 and over 70 you are left with the you have (219685604) that means 20% of the US smoke pot. Pot people always like to over inflate the usage number, but 14% too funny. Even in states where its legal, it would not reach 20%.

People under 15 and over 70 smoke pot. According to this 38% of those surveyed and 17% of those over 65 admit to trying pot. http://www.gallup.com/poll/163835/tried-marijuana-little-cha... Though only 7% of those surveyed where willing to say they currently smoked. As a sanity check if you where 15 in 1960 your ~69. PS: Though, in an informal survey's my 14-15 year old classmates in the 1990's over 90% said they had…

Yeah sure but statistically it is not significant. There is a two year chinese kid that smokes 2 packs a day, but that does not mean a significant number of 2 year old kids smoke.

Also if 14% of people smoke pot that means 80% of all house household smoke pot and it is NOT true.

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