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Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

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Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#61

Post by fail2ban »

snarfy wrote: post #59
fail2ban wrote: post #39

It's beyond me why anyone would write a desktop application in JS, CSS, and HTML, and require node as a dependency. These technologies are already bastard children of the 'just make it work' mentality. Using them for an environment they were never designed for, when there is decades of existing infrastructure purpose-built (and far easier to use), makes no sense. The only reason that I can come up with for why someon…

It's not a desktop application. It's a browser application masquerading as a desktop application. It makes sense if you believe the desktop is dead and the browser won, which many people do.

Precisely my point. Instead of being a browser application masquerading as a desktop application, I posit that it's generally better to just write a desktop application.

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#62

Post by vdaniuk »

fail2ban wrote: post #60
possibilistic wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of elitism is what turns so many people off about technology. What if these are kids that are building this? Do you care so much about your view that you would want to shut them down? Not everyone has the time or interest in learning systems programming or C/C++. In the end, optimization forces operating at levels beyond our comprehension and ability to fully model will determine whether or not this project…

I'm not being elitist. I'm stating my opinion; if you take it as an affront, that's not my problem. So what if they're kids? Do you expect me to self-censor in order to potentially spare the feelings of a developer who may or may not be young? If what they're doing is better, then in time, I'll be proven wrong. As you say, let nature run its course. Hacker News is a place where people discuss technology. Opinion is i…

Hacker News is a place where people at least try to build a coherent, rational discourse. Your posts detract from that goal and these two comments of your are a net negative to the discussion.

But you already know that as you are posting from an anonymous username.

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#63

Post by moonshinefe »

fail2ban wrote: post #39

It's beyond me why anyone would write a desktop application in JS, CSS, and HTML, and require node as a dependency. These technologies are already bastard children of the 'just make it work' mentality. Using them for an environment they were never designed for, when there is decades of existing infrastructure purpose-built (and far easier to use), makes no sense. The only reason that I can come up with for why someon…

Actually, it's far easier to write one web app that can be used on smartphones, desktop systems, tablets etc., on all platforms.

Believe it or not people actually use smartphones and tablets now, and even if you hate that and use desktop for all chatting and all repository notifications and the like, some people don't, and making stand alone GUI applications isn't helping those people.

And indeed often, just making the web app is easier than getting your app to look good natively across multiple operating systems, especially now with mobile being so prominent.

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#64

Post by [deleted] »

vdaniuk wrote: post #62
fail2ban wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not being elitist. I'm stating my opinion; if you take it as an affront, that's not my problem. So what if they're kids? Do you expect me to self-censor in order to potentially spare the feelings of a developer who may or may not be young? If what they're doing is better, then in time, I'll be proven wrong. As you say, let nature run its course. Hacker News is a place where people discuss technology. Opinion is i…

Hacker News is a place where people at least try to build a coherent, rational discourse. Your posts detract from that goal and these two comments of your are a net negative to the discussion. But you already know that as you are posting from an anonymous username.

[deleted]

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#65

Post by moepstar »

rdtsc wrote: post #29
mattdawson wrote: post #11

> With a ZNC bounce, a simple ircd server and 5 minutes you can avoid paying for communication and keep your company chat logs secure and on your own infrastructure. Having watched a coworker spend a solid week getting our company's ircd setup (and this was our VP of Engineering, mind you), I've gotta call BS here. Also, until I started using irccloud[1] a few months ago, I was using ZNC, and that's no walk in the pa…

> Having watched a coworker spend a solid week getting our company's ircd setup (and this was our VP of Engineering, mind you), Was he writing custom patches for it, re-implementing SSL, custom services. I think you wanted to tell us about how hard setting up irc could be but ended up telling us something about your VP of Engineering.

Haha, exactly.

Setting up anything for IRC - be it a bouncer, a bot, an ircd - requires just one thing:

Being able to read, comprehend and some patience.

If all that fails, you just hop on IRC and ask the devs in the projects channel....

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#66

Post by possibilistic »

fail2ban wrote: post #60
possibilistic wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of elitism is what turns so many people off about technology. What if these are kids that are building this? Do you care so much about your view that you would want to shut them down? Not everyone has the time or interest in learning systems programming or C/C++. In the end, optimization forces operating at levels beyond our comprehension and ability to fully model will determine whether or not this project…

I'm not being elitist. I'm stating my opinion; if you take it as an affront, that's not my problem. So what if they're kids? Do you expect me to self-censor in order to potentially spare the feelings of a developer who may or may not be young? If what they're doing is better, then in time, I'll be proven wrong. As you say, let nature run its course. Hacker News is a place where people discuss technology. Opinion is i…

Why would I be outraged by an opinion on the internet unless it were truly deplorable or inhumanely despicable? To characterize my amiable response to you in such a way is borderline ad hominem. (Perhaps you don't mean it to be, but it is in keeping with the definition.)

Because I find the lens of another's opinion or experience a useful tool in normalizing perception, I'm going to state my personal reaction to your posts. I sincerely do not mean to insult or offend you. If you feel differently, I understand. To me, a tone like yours paints a picture of a defensive, self-righteous bully. You state that you will not be censored, yet your language is coercive and might implicitly have that exact effect upon others. Would you really want to hurt someone else's ambition? There are enough problems in the world already without adding to the weight of their burden.

Again, just my personal take on your comments.

On a related note, try to better frame your arguments for the benefit of everyone else here. If you disagree with something, qualify your assertions so that they might be useful instead of adding more noise and entropy. For instance, you could have written a compelling and thoughtful argument about why you consider the DOM to be the wrong solution. Making an effort to write in this manner adds significant weight to your argument and brings value to those that are reading.

Take this as my personal challenge to you: consider the things you write and how others might react to them. We're all under the influence of neuropeptide signaling as we interact with others, and we can only make our best attempt at civility (which is unfortunately not a first-class a biological concept). I understand, and I assure you that I don't want to censor you or otherwise neuter your human experience. I have stated all of this expressly for your use. I have nothing to gain by taking the time to respond here.

Be chill. Relax. Abide. The universe is slipping all of us by far too quickly to waste time with being aggressive. Certain things just don't matter in light of that.

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#67

Post by prawnsalad »

akerl_ wrote: post #7
leishulang wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was playing with all those, then I found kiwiirc

kiwiirc has it's own set of downsides. Primarily, the lack of registration requirement makes it a haven for spammers and other network attacks and their practice of putting all users onto a limited number of IPv4 addresses makes it nearly impossible to block the abuse without affecting legitimate users.

Kiwiirc admin here. We actually have a few options for networks to solve the issues you mention. We can use WEBIRC to have the network show the users correct hostname or the users IP in hex form as the username/ident. For either of these options IRC network admins can enable them at will.

Due to the limited IPv4 addresses now available we can't be using many source address for users, while IPv6 causes further questions such as what do we do for idents as they don't fit as IPv4 addresses do, and what can be done for an IPv6 user connecting to an IPv4 network?

While WEBIRC solves all the issues it does mean IRC networks must trust kiwiirc with setting user hostnames - something some networks don't want to allow making it impossible for us to set user hostnames correctly. It's an issue without a real solution at the moment.

A large part is letting IRC admins know about the options kiwiirc provides to work around the issues, unfortunately many ban all kiwiirc users causing headaches for everyone instead of looking into the options.

Re: Komanda: IRC Client For Developers

#68

Post by danellis »

shadowmint wrote: post #57
fail2ban wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why anyone interested in writing a cross-platform application would even think of Objective-C. You must be an OSX user. Just as one example, Komanda could've been done with Python and any of the variety of cross-platform GUI toolkits available for that language. It would run everywhere, faster, using native widgets, and in a language designed for the desktop.

Did you create this account purely to troll? Python is probably the worst choice you could make for a desktop application. If you're recommending it, you're either trolling, or you have no idea what you're talking about.

> Python is probably the worst choice you could make for a desktop application.

Please elaborate.

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