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Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

bbc.com

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Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#61

Post by Alupis »

sp332 wrote: post #51
Alupis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there seems to be an unfortunate naming collision then, because Islamic State was already reserved for a type of government: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_state

It's not just unfortunate, it was deliberately chosen by the group to invoke legitimacy and power they don't have.

Wow, didn't know that actually.

My question would be -- why are people allowing them to call themselves "Islamic State" then? Why not just go on calling them ISIS or something that does not de-legitimize already existing and legitimate governments? I mean, people in this thread are already starting to jump on the band-wagon and label all "Islamic States" as extremists... when that is not the case.

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#62

Post by u124556 »

chc wrote: post #45
dewey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's "Freedom of Speech" (but only if we like it)?

Beheading people is not speech; it's violence. You're arguing for freedom of violence.

The beheading is beyond our control, but should we not talk about it?

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#63

Post by sp332 »

Alupis wrote: post #61
sp332 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just unfortunate, it was deliberately chosen by the group to invoke legitimacy and power they don't have.

Wow, didn't know that actually. My question would be -- why are people allowing them to call themselves "Islamic State" then? Why not just go on calling them ISIS or something that does not de-legitimize already existing and legitimate governments? I mean, people in this thread are already starting to jump on the band-wagon and label all "Islamic States" as extremists... when that is not the case.

Oh yeah, it's been almost a month now. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/06/isil-declar... I'm not sure why they "get away" with it, probably because western media doesn't get the significance of the term.

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#64

Post by aestetix »

bellerocky wrote: post #18
dewey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's "Freedom of Speech" (but only if we like it)?

Seems like you're confused here. Freedom of speech is about citizens and their government, not citizens and private entities. Having said that, freedom of speech has never meant that you can say whatever you want, and the courts have supported this. Right now there are people in jail for threatening politicians on Twitter. So yes, freedom of speech is a limited right. It's not a right to encourage people to rape, mur…

>> Right now there are people in jail for threatening politicians on Twitter.

Do you have a source for that? I would be very interested in seeing the details.

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#65

Post by peter303 »

There was strange premonition of this in the 1990s Left Behind scifi series. This was at the dawn of the web. In those stories the true-believer Xtianss are guerillas battling the forces of the anti-Christ whom control all government utilities like the web. Yet the guerillas use the web for their planning. I always wondered why the anti-christ couldnt stop the web.

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#66

Post by srslack »

pera wrote: post #9

This is like saying "E-Mail cannot stop X mails" or "XMPP cannot stop X chats", which is pretty obvious. The whole point of a decentralized service like Diaspora is that it can't be completely censored. Internet providers could partially block the access to pods that don't censor this kind of content, but then they could setup their own Diaspora pod in a Tor hidden services...

"Bitcoin cannot stop Islamic State transactions"

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#67

Post by waps »

Alupis wrote: post #52
bellerocky wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, I don't know, how is that relevant? What is your argument? You think if a radical Christian group posted videos of murders online Twitter wouldn't ban it? What? Who are these people commenting today? Where did they come from?

I don't think anyone really takes issue with Twitter pulling down content -- they are a private company (as-in not controlled by the govt) -- but when a government starts censoring material (like in the UK were linking-to, or even viewing of this sort of material is considered illegal), that's where things get not-OK. What I find more outrageous was that the reporter apparently was held captive for 2 years... without…

> What I find more outrageous was that the reporter apparently was held captive for 2 years... without anyone (in the public) knowing. Bergdahl was held captive for 5 years and luckily was returned in a controversial exchange. What is going on that we are not able to protect and/or recover our people?

I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but here goes : the US cannot protect every one of it's citizens from every external force. Not abroad, and not in America. Terrorist forces who recruit out of a near-global pool of 1 billion muslims, who effectively have presence everywhere, there's no way. If you think about this for 5 minutes, you'd realize that even a genocidal police state wouldn't be able to do that.

> Seems to send a clear message that if you get captured by an extremists group like ISIS, the government won't come running in to save you, nor will the public even know you are missing -- fore the government doesn't want to stir public opinion into favoring some sort of military action. So, in essence -- you are all alone out there, potentially for years, or worse. -- That is outrageous to me.

That's the message islam wants to spread, yes. Of course, the opposite is true [1]. The US military tried to rescue him (and others) and failed due to lacking intelligence.

[1] http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-us-syria-hosta...

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#68

Post by kumar303 »

bellerocky wrote: post #12
dewey wrote: post #2

I think it's a bit weird that instead of using this to promote their values (Decentralization, Freedom, Privacy as mentioned on their landing page [0]) they are essentially pressuring pod admins to take down the content. I know they could just setup their own Pod but these values are what makes them any different from the likes of Twitter and I would've expected them to stand by them a bit more. [0] https://diasporaf…

> I think it's a bit weird that instead of using this to promote their values (Decentralization, Freedom, Privacy as mentioned on their landing page [0]) they are essentially pressuring pod admins to take down the content. Yeah that's probably because the ISIS is known for suicide bombings, cutting off heads, video taping it so that the families and friends of the victim can see how gruesome their loved one died, kil…

I'll admit I'm somewhat conflicted. You can arrive at similar conclusions thinking about it as child pornography. In both cases it does seem like censoring the material is the right thing to do.

However, my conflict comes from the fact that censorship doesn't really solve the root problem. In child molesters, the problem is better treated in psychiatric care and in extremism the problem is better treated through education, peace, and tolerance.

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#69

Post by waps »

lukeschlather wrote: post #54
worklogin wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To reiterate: * Freedom of speech is freedom of restriction from government. * Calls to violence and videos of murder are not covered by the 1st amendment.

Freedom of speech is clearly enshrined in the US Constitution as freedom of restriction from government, but freedom of speech is a fundamental human right. It's kind of an academic distinction if a multinational corporation like Twitter is restricting it or a government.

Legally you are extremely wrong.

You could mean either :

1) US freedom of speech, which is only freedom from government interference with political speech, and obviously US-only.

2) UN "international" freedom of speech. Has 2 major problems

* cannot actually be used to sue anyone for denying it, unlike the US law

* has been repeatedly judged to not even cover "muhammad is an asshole", despite that obviously being political speech in a third of the countries that signed it. Same goes of Chinese and EU politicians, EU royalty, Thai royalty, and a myriad of other cases.

Re: Diaspora social network cannot stop IS posts

#70

Post by JoeAltmaier »

srslack wrote: post #66
pera wrote: post #9

This is like saying "E-Mail cannot stop X mails" or "XMPP cannot stop X chats", which is pretty obvious. The whole point of a decentralized service like Diaspora is that it can't be completely censored. Internet providers could partially block the access to pods that don't censor this kind of content, but then they could setup their own Diaspora pod in a Tor hidden services...

"Bitcoin cannot stop Islamic State transactions"

Nor can 'cash'. Its fungible. But cash requires a physical relationship. BitCoins take it to a whole nother level with virtual payments. So it really is a new thing. And we may not like all the ways BitCoins get used.
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