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Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

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Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#61

If you are not against Java you might want to check out JSF. Code your pages using Facelets though, its better than using JSP. JSF is nice because (unlike ASP.net) it cleanly separates behavior and presentation (its purely MVC). And its a component based architecture which is rendering format agnostic (HTML, WML, XHTML-MP, cHTML). So you can code one page which can render the contents in a different format depending…

> So you can code one page which can render the contents in a different format depending on the client device.

I think that is the fundamental failing of JSF. It shows that the creators of it think that a specific view is just a detail.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#62
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you sir for justifying me staying away from all these frameworks.

What did I say that would justify you staying away? Java? I would take JSF over ASP.net any day. I consider ASP.Net to be on a similar level to old fashioned JSP (mixing and mashing of model and presentation all over the place). JSF on the other hand is a true MVC framework So my point is: JSF is very powerful if you can master it.

Wikipedia entry for JSF:

"According to the author of the book Core JSF, JSF offers a means for Java to compete with ASP.NET/Visual Studio in the area of Rapid application development (RAD). The addition of the Sun Java Studio Creator IDE provides a RAD environment similar to Visual Studio 2005, potentially lowering development cost and other barriers to entry."

So basically the world of J2EE pre-JSF is worse than ASP.NET and with JSF, J2EE is catching up with ASP.NET stack.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#63
The biggest issue (and the reason i'm not using it) is vendor lock-in.

If the next version of Windows Server requires something crazy or has a massive price hike, you either accept it or have to port your entire system.

With Java, I don't have that problem. I can pick and choose the best platforms and technologies for the job. With ASP.NET you're pretty much stuck with the Microsoft ecosystem.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#64
post #13
post #8

There are plenty of startups using ASP.NET or Java-based tech. In fact most companies started by "business types" are .NET/Java because they are easier to find disposable coders for. You don't see as many .NET shops here because most posters are (a) young, (b) non-business types, and they had a chance to pick a technology. Most went with something dynamic and Linux-based. We did too. We're on RoR, despite having tons…

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

System.Console.WriteLine("Hi, I'm a .NET library function for the CLR being called in C#");

System.out.println("Hi, I'm a Java library function for Java being called in Java");

Java The Language and C# are extremely similar, and if the differences bother you that much you can use J#. Java and .NET both provide managed runtime environments. Java and .NET both provide a large library of functions for that environment.

I'd say if you're going to put Java and .NET into different categories, you should have some solid reasons, so let's hear them.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#65
post #64
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

System.Console.WriteLine("Hi, I'm a .NET library function for the CLR being called in C#"); System.out.println("Hi, I'm a Java library function for Java being called in Java"); Java The Language and C# are extremely similar, and if the differences bother you that much you can use J#. Java and .NET both provide managed runtime environments. Java and .NET both provide a large library of functions for that environment.…

Java and C#/C++ are very similar languages as far as I know. ASP.NET seems very similar to PHP. .NET just sounds a horrible mess. VB.NET? why would anyone touch anything that has a language 'visual' 'beginners'. Don't those two words hint at anything?

Comparing Java (the language) to .NET (the system that lots of m$ languages run on) doesn't make much sense though IMHO.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#66
post #13
post #8

There are plenty of startups using ASP.NET or Java-based tech. In fact most companies started by "business types" are .NET/Java because they are easier to find disposable coders for. You don't see as many .NET shops here because most posters are (a) young, (b) non-business types, and they had a chance to pick a technology. Most went with something dynamic and Linux-based. We did too. We're on RoR, despite having tons…

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

Java and .NET are both OO functional languages that execute code in JIT compilers, but there are many differences.

.NET has stronger patterns throughout the system, you basically learn one set of patterns and it works on everything. most developers support all of the patterns.

.NET has superior thread and memory management. in most tests i have seen, .NET code runs faster with less memory bulk and with better memory access models for most object calls.

.NET remoting is built in, while with Java you need external 3rd party Apps.

Visual Studio Blows Eclipse out of the water. I have yet to see a feature in Eclipse that was not first deployed in Visual Studio.

Visual Studio Team Edition, better supports 100,000 lines of code or more in revision control than any other platform, while remaining agile.

Microsoft has a long term support option if you plan to actually scale your product, Java on the other hand requires you to base your support options on the user community.

If you want to get access to the hardware layer for graphics, or communication, you can use the same tool set vertical, as you can to develop the rest of your code. With Java, if you want to do hardware, you need to break out of your development tools and use different ones.

.NET/ Visual Studio has framework language packages for C#, Visual Basic, Python, PHP, Ruby, C, C++, J#, JavaScript, -and if we wanted to, we could write a framework package for ActionScript3 (yes we have considered it)

We love the .NET platform, but what we do not like is the server licensing fee. at $1000 a software license, we would rather amortize that cost based on uptime like a service, so that we could deploy an image on any number of computers, and pay for what we use. I have raised this concern with MS and how they do not fit well with EC2. For now we feel that MS will move along with their Novell relationship and Mono will become an extension platform for MS developers, with a service contract only.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#67
I am doing a startup in ASP.NET 2.0 because its easy money. The developers make hand over fist when compared to similar open PHP positions.

As to the technical reasoning, I started web development in PHP for 2 years before working with .NET and so far I am supremely impressed with some of the things that just work. The startup to get running is really slow but I think things will pickup as I continue development.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#68
post #64
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't group Java together with .NET :D

System.Console.WriteLine("Hi, I'm a .NET library function for the CLR being called in C#"); System.out.println("Hi, I'm a Java library function for Java being called in Java"); Java The Language and C# are extremely similar, and if the differences bother you that much you can use J#. Java and .NET both provide managed runtime environments. Java and .NET both provide a large library of functions for that environment.…

Java can not manage memory marshaling between win32 apps and managed code. In Java, you need to message pass with pipes, and its a pain.

In Linux Piping is really fast, but in Windows, Piping is slow.

I really like being able to code C++ and C# in the same solution, but in different projects, while being able to step through all layers of the code.

Remote Debuging, and RPC calls are way better in .NET

Also if you are doing XML, and Web Service calls (soap, get, post) .NET includes the functional layering and interface segmentation to access each of the protocols independently or together.

In my opinion, if you want to set up some sort of transactional API, .NET has leaps and bounds better performance and professionals level tools.

If you are trying to hack something together, .NET has a large learning curve, and requires disciplined programing to get any practical use out of it.

Re: Ask YC: Are there *any* startups using ASP.NET?

#69
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the benefits? What is bad about it?

After trying a few different languages .NET was definitely the fastest outside of C/C++. I didn't feel like learning C++ and then having to build a homebrew everything on top of it. My history is primarily ECMAScript, so it was very easy for me to pick up C#. Going between ActionScript 3 and C# constantly is a breeze. I couldn't imagine going between say.. Lisp and ActionScript 20 times a day. It would be such a detr…

Thats reassuring to hear as I am just now picking up C# ASP.NET and am coming from the ECMAScript background. Thanks for your insights.
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