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“Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

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Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#61

Post by pekk »

serf wrote: post #43
poolpool wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damaged race relations more than centuries of slavery and systematic discrimination by our country's leaders did?

You're comparing 1960s America to colonial (and later) America. It's certainly possible that the damage done later on was greater, as there was a greater disbursement of knowledge, media, and information during a time in which the country was known as the land of opportunity, the melting pot. A speech calling for violence in the time of newspapers and television is surely more damaging than that same speech given in…

People give such speeches today in mainstream right-wing rallies and are not criticized for it at all, let alone as harshly as Malcolm X is criticized. That's apples to apples since it's still the time of newspapers and television.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#62

Post by jbuzbee »

novacole wrote: post #48
oldmanjay wrote: post #4

what a shame that his intellect ended up wasted on reactionary racism. understandable in a sense, given time and place, but still... a waste.

Black people can't be racist in any way that really counts. Racism only matters if the attitude had some sort of negative effect on the group you're racist towards. Since blacks have no real power as a whole, they can't be racist. If blacks were in the majority in terms of power, then and only then could they be racist. The ideas of Malcolm and the NOI, the panthers, etc were a perfectly sensible response to the raci…

> Black people can't be racist in any way that really counts

Rolls eyes..

Tell that to this guy that it doesn't really matter:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/04/04/white-man-beaten-by-m...

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#63

Post by phaus »

bilbo0s wrote: post #54
phaus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, I'll admit that I personally don't know enough about Malcolm X to form an educated opinion of him, but you seem to be making the assertion that this biography is the only existing source of information on the man. That's pretty ridiculous. Perhaps tomjen learned about him from another source?

I know I will probably be sorry for asking this... but... wouldn't that be kind of the point ? If you learn about Korean Comfort Women from Japanese text books... do you really have enough information to form an opinion ? I mean... shouldn't you ask ... say ... some of the actual Korean Women about their experiences ???

You gave an extremely narrow example. There are a multitude of resources on virtually any subject. Would I expect a textbook on African American history to cover Malcolm X with enough depth to be considered a definitive source? Of course not, but that doesn't make the textbook useless. We don't have to limit ourselves to a single source of information, so why would we? The original post I was replying to said "How could you have formed an opinion if you haven't read the book." As if reading that particular book is the only way to learn anything about the man. Malcom X's biography is probably a great book, and I hope to find the time to read it soon, but that doesn't mean the statement wasn't absurd.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#64

Post by nether »

yincrash wrote: post #17
dwolfson20 wrote: post #2

Everyone should really just read the entire Autobiography. http://www.amazon.com/The-Autobiography-Malcolm-Told-Haley/d... Also, they should spell "Malcolm" correctly. :)

Surprisingly, this book was one of the options I had for required summer reading growing up in Georgia public schools. Definitely a good read.

same here growing up in rural virginia

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#65

Post by aurelian »

moo wrote: post #59
hueving wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the standard bullshit apologetics of "the bad things they do don't count because they are an oppressed minority". Why do you think they can't be held up to the same ethical standards as the majority? Are you implying they are to incompetent to think?

Novacole is not saying violence and hatred toward white people is okay. The poster is distinguishing between prejudice and the term racism. Racism has a power component. Powerless people cannot make another race face racism as a group because they do not have the societal power to effect laws, police, institutional behavior.

Your definition of racism is at odds with common dictionary definitions of the word. Leftist academics have tried to redefine the word.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#66

Post by justizin »

tomjen3 wrote: post #31
dwolfson20 wrote: post #2

Everyone should really just read the entire Autobiography. http://www.amazon.com/The-Autobiography-Malcolm-Told-Haley/d... Also, they should spell "Malcolm" correctly. :)

Is it still worth reading for somebody who despise the man? Both what he was (a robber) and what he became?

Seems to me there isn't anyone for whom it would be more worth reading.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#67

Post by phaus »

moo wrote: post #59
hueving wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the standard bullshit apologetics of "the bad things they do don't count because they are an oppressed minority". Why do you think they can't be held up to the same ethical standards as the majority? Are you implying they are to incompetent to think?

Novacole is not saying violence and hatred toward white people is okay. The poster is distinguishing between prejudice and the term racism. Racism has a power component. Powerless people cannot make another race face racism as a group because they do not have the societal power to effect laws, police, institutional behavior.

>The poster is distinguishing between discrimination and the term racism.

You and the poster seem to misunderstand what racism is. Racism is a type of discrimination. The term discrimination covers a wide range of things, it doesn't only deal with race. You are free to disagree with the actual definition of racism, but you don't get to reinvent the english language. Whether or not something is racist has absolutely nothing to do with power.

Its as if you and the other poster read the definition of racism and decided that the words used to describe it weren't horrifying enough, and so you made up a definition that better represents how you feel about it.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#68

Post by novacole »

hueving wrote: post #55
novacole wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black people can't be racist in any way that really counts. Racism only matters if the attitude had some sort of negative effect on the group you're racist towards. Since blacks have no real power as a whole, they can't be racist. If blacks were in the majority in terms of power, then and only then could they be racist. The ideas of Malcolm and the NOI, the panthers, etc were a perfectly sensible response to the raci…

Ah, the standard bullshit apologetics of "the bad things they do don't count because they are an oppressed minority". Why do you think they can't be held up to the same ethical standards as the majority? Are you implying they are to incompetent to think?

Lol I certainly don't think I or the majority of other black people are too incompetent to think. What I am saying is that if a white person has stupid racist views, I don't care. Unless that racist person is in power, what difference does it make that they are an idiot? Of course black people can hold racist views, just as whites can but blacks aren't the majority in power, and so those stupid views have no real effect on society. Since whites have been the power holders in society, their racism is the only racism that actually matters.

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#69

Post by tomjen3 »

poolpool wrote: post #42
tomjen3 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damage is cumulative. Arguing over who did the most damage is not likely to bring about anything but hatred, resentment and more damage. That is essentially what X did. King offered unity, healing and a better future.

You don't politely ask your oppressors to give you the rights they have taken away from you.

Why not?

It worked for King, it worked for Ghandi. Do you really think there could have been something like the civil rights laws -- born primarily of white people -- if the primary black person had been X and not King?

Re: “Learning to Read” excerpt from The Autobiography of Malcolm X

#70

Post by moo »

phaus wrote: post #67
moo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Novacole is not saying violence and hatred toward white people is okay. The poster is distinguishing between prejudice and the term racism. Racism has a power component. Powerless people cannot make another race face racism as a group because they do not have the societal power to effect laws, police, institutional behavior.

>The poster is distinguishing between discrimination and the term racism. You and the poster seem to misunderstand what racism is. Racism is a type of discrimination. The term discrimination covers a wide range of things, it doesn't only deal with race. You are free to disagree with the actual definition of racism, but you don't get to reinvent the english language. Whether or not something is racist has absolutely n…

Here is text from Wikipedia: "One view holds that racism is best understood as 'prejudice plus power' because without the support of political or economic power, prejudice would not be able to manifest as a pervasive cultural, institutional or social phenomenon." So I'm not making things up. To address issues affecting people as a group and not as individuals, anti-racist people would see the benefit of acknowledging the relevance of power to the perpetuation of racism being institutionally enforced.
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