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The Anatomy of Determination

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#61

Post by billswift »

timwiseman wrote: post #58
davidw wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're "ambitious", you may be going where no one has gone before. These days, everyone knows that getting into a land war with Russia is a bad idea, but it may not have always been so. Same thing with lots of other people whose ambition caused them to push the limits (mountain climbers?). If you're at the limits, you may not know when 'determination' means pushing on despite everything to achieve some great succe…

Some people are smart because they push on in the face of great opposition. Others win plaudits for "knowing when to quit" and changing direction. It's all a bit wishy washy, Its not that its wishy washy, its that one of the great keys to success is knowing the difference between the two. On the one hand, if you are on the right track you probably need to be ready to persevere in the face of enormous opposition, but…

Exactly. It's like the old question of the difference between having an open mind versus holes in the head.

Both vary so much between even similar situations, that there is no way of knowing which side of the line cases fall on, unless they are extremely good or bad, except try it and see.

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#62

Post by sharpn »

ankeshk wrote: post #36
sharpn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geoffrey of Monmouth (Wales != England) did not invent the Arthurian legend, he reinvented it. The Arthurian legend predates him & appears to have been based on a 'Roman' soldier who remained in the British Isles after the first Roman invasion: 184 - Lucius Artorius Castus, commander of a detachment of Sarmatian conscripts stationed in Britain, led his troops to Gaul to quell a rebellion. This is the first appearance…

Thanks sharpn. I'll have to read a bit more history... thanks for the leads. To not let my lack of knowledge take away from the point of the comment - let me reiterate: The point is not how Arthurian legends started. The point is King Henry VII got a hero from Thomas Malory's book. And this hero gave him the ambition to change England.

What evidence I can find indicates it was actually the other way around - that Henry VII co-opted the legend to reinforce his legitimacy, rather than being inspired by it. If anything, the other part of your original point (having strong problems to overcome) is probably more apt for that case.

Anyway, your broader point of having heroes is still valid.

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#63

Post by ecq »

pg wrote: post #39
jack7890 wrote: post #17

Would be curious to know how he actually evaluates determination when analyzing startups. How can you tell?

It's hard; that's our biggest problem. It's straightforward to tell in a 10 minute conversation how smart someone is, but very hard to tell how determined they are. When we pick wrong it's almost always by misjudging determination.

I agree it's very hard to tell if someone has the determination and focus to succeed. One thing you can do is to look at past accomplishments, challenges, hardships and most importantly failures that they've encountered in the past and how they were able to overcome or cope with it.

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#64

Post by billswift »

JesseAldridge wrote: post #23

I have a feeling that "discipline", that is, getting yourself to do things by sheer force of will, only works in short bursts. For long periods, you need create a system for yourself that takes your own weakness into account. For example, for a long time I tended to exercise in intermittent bursts. I would do it for a few weeks, then catch a cold or something and fail to pick it up again afterword. The solution to th…

I don't know where you got that definition of "discipline". Discipline is the development of or training intended to produce a habitual and specific pattern of behavior. There are several slight variations in the meaning of discipline, but none that comes close to its being used as a synonym for will-power.

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#65

Post by harshavr »

timwiseman wrote: post #60
harshavr wrote: post #33

As a grad student in math, i would say that determination still plays a important role. For me, there have often been periods where you lose motivation and dont see why you are doing what you are doing, and then sometimes there are moments of clarity. (someone aptly compared this to mountain climbing). I imagine this happens in lots of other fields,(music, to pick a random example) where there is a prequisite of lear…

I certainly hope you are right. I am just starting my own graduate studies in math, but having limited apparant innate abilities in mathematics I am counting on practice and study to correct that deficiency.

well, best of you luck! hope any possible bad phases dont get to you.

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#66

Post by bigmac »

This essay seems to be somewhat at odds with http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html from January 2005.

Now, PG argues that discipline is an important component of determination. For startups, determination is called "the most important predictor of success."

In the earlier essay, these comments were made:

Now I know a number of people who do great work, and it's the same with all of them. They have little discipline. They're all terrible procrastinators and find it almost impossible to make themselves do anything they're not interested in. One still hasn't sent out his half of the thank-you notes from his wedding, four years ago. Another has 26,000 emails in her inbox. I'm not saying you can get away with zero self-discipline. You probably need about the amount you need to go running.

PG, does this difference in opinion represent increased wisdom due to the experience gained from doing YC rounds? Or is it simply a nuanced or superficial difference?

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#67

Post by david927 »

Determination is great for investors because it increases the chance that they'll get a return. But the number of great ideas is x, and having a bunch of companies bound and determined to do something with x * 100 is relegating them to living under a horrible opportunity cost -- eating ramen for a subsistence profitability level when they could be doing something more interesting and profitable.

A company needs to eventually have an idea that's both unique and compelling. It should optimize on having a sustainable competitive advantage. Determination is incredibly important because few companies start out with the right mix and usually have to experiment to get it right, but let's not over-idealize it. All the determination in the world won't let you make a cake with sand and olive oil. A founder has to know "when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em."

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#68

Post by epkann »

It's interesting that Paul believes willfulness is primarily inborn, especially since he now has a child. How would he react if his child were to exhibit lack of willfulness (a trait he clearly admires)?

I agree that among siblings in the same family, one often observes a wide range of willfulness. However, the same family may not be as homogeneous an environment as Paul assumes. It's been shown that elite universities disproportionately admit eldest children and only children. It would seem that the differential upbringing that only and eldest children receive (in undivided parental time and attention, etc.) does result in increased willfulness, discipline, and/or intelligence.

Ambitious people often hope that their children will exceed their own levels of achievement. Empirically, it seems that there is a strong regression-toward-the-mean effect among the children of parents who have done great things. I wonder how much of this is nature versus nurture - could there be a negative effect of growing up in too rich of an environment that diminishes one's chances of becoming a Steve Jobs or Paul Graham? How do you train willfulness and ambition in a child?

Re: The Anatomy of Determination

#69

Post by nazgulnarsil »

sharpn wrote: post #6
davidw wrote: post #2

> I can't think of any field in which determination is overrated Getting into land wars with Russia with winter approaching.

That's willfull. Having the discipline to wait until spring (no matter what the cost) would have been determined.

that's post hoc analysis of what "determination" is defined as. that makes it less useful as a metric of success.
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