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First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

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Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#61

The Snowden documents revealed that Germans visiting the Tor project website would be subject to permanent NSA surveillance. Does that make you more or less likely to click the link below? If the answer is "less likely", how does it feel to be intimidated out of your free expression? https://www.torproject.org/

That thought went through my head regarding the XKeyScore link as well. I clicked both that link and your Tor link.

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#62
Look at all of the people that have gotten fired (or lost their careers) for things they said or did in their private time over the past year.

The firings were brought on by mob mentality on Twitter and Facebook with no judge or jury. All to silence opposing view points.

If such behavior is accepted as normal, why is it any surprise that our government is doing the same thing..and worse?

Big brother is here, and it's us. I'm glad I learned early on to stay anonymous on the Internet.

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#63

I think most people feel powerless, either financially or technically. Many people I know think what the NSA is doing is completely wrong, but they have problems logging into facebook and getting their email to work, they just feel powerless because they don't understand the technology behind the world they live in. How can they stand up to something they can't even begin to comprehend? The NSA could literally do any…

1. Couldn't a random hacker do that? Or a hacker affiliated with a private institution (e.g. News of the World)?

2. There's this terrible virus going around that locks you out of your PC or server meaning you lose all your data unless you pay the ransom of $500 in bitcoins. With this new trend in un-regulated crypto-currency, this scam cannot be stopped through the traditional means - financial/bank account freezes. Does this give any privacy proponents pause for thought? Also there's the old hack your webcam and blackmail you which has led people to commit suicide. Again, malicious hackers, not a gov't conspiracy There's actually a reason we've given power to police/enforcers in every aspect of life: because criminals are ruthless and prey on the innocent and gullible - physically, financially, and of course, now cyber-ly.

3. You've actually started to glean the important point in how we deal with cyber evidence as a society. Nobody's life has ever been ruined by getting put into an internal watch-list. But when list become enforceable (like the No-Fly list, or the McCarthy-era communist list) then lives are ruined. This is similar to your point about planting evidence: when the local police and prosecutor get brought into it, lives are at stake. I again wonder though why a spy agency would need to hack evidence onto your computer when they could simply plant in your house; that has happend thousands of times by dirty street cops, while your example - being carried out by a gov't agency - has never been reported to happen even once.

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#65

The second to last line betrays a misunderstanding of the current order of things. (Unless the writer thinks it is the Muslims or the KKK that are coming for us.) Jews in general are no longer the victims.

This is a poem from the holocaust

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#66
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is clicking on a link to a project you have no interest in "free expression"?

"I can click on it any time I want, I just choose not to."

And whether you do or not, how is that expressing yourself? Are you expressing yourself when you brush your teeth or take a piss in the morning too?

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any time this is attempted, it is met with enormous governmental show of force. No matter how peaceful the dissent, the US government is not tolerant of it.

It is? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen legally organized protests (yes, you do have to file the appropriate paperwork) recently which have actually been shut down by an enormous governmental show of force. Do you have any examples?

Occupy Wall Street, the Seattle WTO protests, off the top of my head.

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#68
post #41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our schools SUCK. Not 100% of them, but 95+% of them. The schools do not teach independent, rational thinking, nor do they do a decent job teaching American history or historical American political values. In fact, they are much more likely to attack them. For example, by claiming that the Founding Fathers were slaveholding bigots, or that early settlers were genocidal. Both of which are oft-repeated claims t…

> For example, by claiming that the Founding Fathers were slaveholding bigots, or that early settlers were genocidal. This is not the first time you have attempted to recast the movement towards truth in academics into "real American" victimhood. You may be distressed to find that the world still does not change because of your desires, that it will not ignore the beliefs in black inferiority put forth by men like Je…

Your comment is a completely unwarranted attack on my personal character. Plus, you're arguing about something different from what I was arguing, as if I had argued it. Finally, you're taking a derogatory tone. Your comment is not part of a civil intellectual discussion.

Re: First they came for the Whistleblowers, and I did not speak out

#69
post #68
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, by claiming that the Founding Fathers were slaveholding bigots, or that early settlers were genocidal. This is not the first time you have attempted to recast the movement towards truth in academics into "real American" victimhood. You may be distressed to find that the world still does not change because of your desires, that it will not ignore the beliefs in black inferiority put forth by men like Je…

Your comment is a completely unwarranted attack on my personal character. Plus, you're arguing about something different from what I was arguing, as if I had argued it. Finally, you're taking a derogatory tone. Your comment is not part of a civil intellectual discussion.

I've observed your pattern. Maybe you shouldn't keep it if you don't like it.

As for derogation--if you think your post wasn't derogatory, you should try getting outside your own head for a bit.

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