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NSA targets the privacy-conscious

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Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#61

Post by Holbein »

pessimizer wrote: post #58
Holbein wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overestimating the NSA's capability to cross-reference your actions and compare them to "what people like me should typically do". My point is, you should not change your behaviour to be a lesser target to the NSA. You'd just quickly become super paranoid. Instead you should live your live exactly the same, and if the NSA tries to make your live bad, that's the moment when you call them out on it - aft…

I think you're overestimating the difficulty of the problem. The difficult part is access to the channels of information. After that, it's a matter of applying well-known algorithms while filtering and processing streams. The only reason that I suspect that the government is still terrible at this is because they have to rely on government contractors to implement it. If they're intentionally funding startups that ha…

> You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave.

Well, in contrast to you, I plan to enjoy my life instead of wasting it by worrying about some possible bad actor spying on me, which is what I'm must read is how you spend your life.

Sure, fight the NSA by engaging a little bit politically, and buying the right things. But apart from that, don't worry so much, man.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#62

Post by watwut »

pekk wrote: post #34
sroerick wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? Are you being facetious? This is so oddly specific.

It's a conservative meme that raw milk producers are being unfairly persecuted, in those circles it's supposed to be a paradigm case of the overly intrusive nanny state. In reality, there is hard epidemiological data showing that selling raw milk (edit: e.g. through the normal store channels) can lead to serious harm including deaths. So FDA bans it for interstate sales, but it's up to the state to decide how to regu…

Anyone can easily buy raw milk here and so far no diseases happened. That being said, raw milk manufacturing and transportation are heavily regulated and checked by inspectors. They are also regularly tested for possible infections.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#63

Post by pessimizer »

Holbein wrote: post #61
pessimizer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're overestimating the difficulty of the problem. The difficult part is access to the channels of information. After that, it's a matter of applying well-known algorithms while filtering and processing streams. The only reason that I suspect that the government is still terrible at this is because they have to rely on government contractors to implement it. If they're intentionally funding startups that ha…

> You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave. Well, in contrast to you, I plan to enjoy my life instead of wasting it by worrying about some possible bad actor spying on me, which is what I'm must read is how you spend your life. Sure, fight the NSA by engaging a little bit politically, and buying the right things. But apart from that, don't worry so much, man.

I'm not worried (edit: about anything immediate), I'm not failing to partake in anything that I ever would, and I don't live any differently than I ever have. You're projecting something onto me, and that's not a great way to have a productive discussion.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#64

Post by reuven »

cottonseed wrote: post #53
reuven wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write for Linux Journal. Imagine how I feel! I had no idea that I was participating in subversive activities.

Proud?

I'm certainly proud to be associated with LJ, and to be writing for them.

I'm also willing to believe that hackers who want to use encryption and other privacy-oriented technologies use and read about open-source technologies. Although my guess is that this includes nearly all serious security researchers, experts, and implementers.

That said, to claim that people who read LJ are extremists, or that the magazine is something of an "extremist forum," misses the mark in so many ways.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#65

Post by vidarh »

ajays wrote: post #38
pekk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a conservative meme that raw milk producers are being unfairly persecuted, in those circles it's supposed to be a paradigm case of the overly intrusive nanny state. In reality, there is hard epidemiological data showing that selling raw milk (edit: e.g. through the normal store channels) can lead to serious harm including deaths. So FDA bans it for interstate sales, but it's up to the state to decide how to regu…

> In reality, there is hard epidemiological data showing that selling raw milk (edit: e.g. through the normal store channels) can lead to serious harm including deaths. I'd love to see the evidence, and see it compared to other food sources. I grew up in India. There all we got was raw milk from the cowherd; in fact, even today, my parents send the helper to get milk in a pail from the cowherd. It's always been raw m…

> It's always been raw milk, warm and fresh from the udder. And the first thing they do is to boil it.

Two things: Firstly, it's not raw if they boil it. Most store-bought milk has gone through two processes: Pasteurisation and homogenisation. Pasteurisation is simply heating the milk. If your family boiled it before drinking, you've actually heated the milk more than commercial pasteurisation does. Normally pasteurised milk is heated to only 72 degrees celsius for only 15 seconds. Homogenisation is essentially forcing the milk through filters that breaks up the globs of fat. Only pasteurisation is necessary for food safety.

And secondly, pasteurisation is most necessary if you intend to store the milk. If, as you say, it's "warm and fresh from the udder", there's little risk from drinking raw milk.

The parent of your post specifically said selling raw milk through the normal store channels. The issue is not raw milk, but selling raw milk, which when you combine storage and transport, and the consumer storing it, means plenty of time for massive amounts of bacteria growth. As I'm sure you know, even with normal pasteurisation milk spoils relatively quickly.

> If I were to conjecture, it's that the "no raw milk" diktat forces farmers to go to big distribution companies with the requisite facilities for pasteurization.

Health authorities first started to push for pasteurisation after its extensive success in massively reducing illnesses - and deaths - due to spoiled milk.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#66

Post by tking8924 »

Zak wrote: post #40
jobu wrote: post #16

Because anyone trying to keep anything private or secure must be hiding something bad... That's just wonderful. After 10 years of pervasive surveillance and not being able to catch a single terrorist I can't believe the NSA is trying to rationalize it as being a good thing. It's too bad the bill to defund the NSA didn't pass: http://defundthensa.com/

Because anyone trying to keep anything private or secure must be hiding something bad The NSA does an awful lot of hiding things. It might therefore be reasonable to conclude that it is bad and should, at the very least have its funding cut.

Got to stop people from doing things that they themselves are doing...

Anecdotally reminds of this guy that was key in setting up the British porn filter being arrested for child pornography: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10675...

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#67

Post by alex_duf »

nostrademons wrote: post #46
blauwbilgorgel wrote: post #25

I'd like to focus on: Merely searching the web for the privacy-enhancing software tools outlined in the XKeyscore rules causes the NSA to mark and track the IP address of the person doing the search. Again the media makes it sound like there exists a dragnet on (Google) searches. But this time one of the authors is J. Appelbaum. So which is it? Terrorist Scores based on search engine searches sounds fantastically ins…

One of the earlier Snowden disclosures was that the NSA had tapped private internal Google fiber lines carrying traffic between data centers. Same with Yahoo, Microsoft, other major Internet destinations. Google has since started encrypting all internal traffic, but for awhile pretty much anything was available to the NSA dragnet.

I'm sure it still is. We just don't know how yet, but a giant corporation like google has probably other ways to be attacked.

And if it is not possible on the technical level, the NSA will find the people to access the data they want.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#68

Post by vidarh »

yxhuvud wrote: post #42
ajays wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In reality, there is hard epidemiological data showing that selling raw milk (edit: e.g. through the normal store channels) can lead to serious harm including deaths. I'd love to see the evidence, and see it compared to other food sources. I grew up in India. There all we got was raw milk from the cowherd; in fact, even today, my parents send the helper to get milk in a pail from the cowherd. It's always been raw m…

Boiling milk? No thanks, boiled milk tastes funny. You should remember that not everyone live in the same hot climate as you where milk generally don't go bad immediately, and that there are plenty of people around in cooler climates that have stomachs that usually can handle milk without problem.

> Boiling milk? No thanks, boiled milk tastes funny.

Boiled milk, yes. But unless you get milk straight from a farm, it's likely pasteurised: Heated to 72 degrees celsius for 15 seconds. [EDIT: I didn't realise how many places allow sales of unpasteurised milk; yikes - I'll be careful about reading labels next time I'm travelling]

> and that there are plenty of people around in cooler climates that have stomachs that usually can handle milk without problem.

The "stomachs that usually can handle milk without a problem" is entirely unrelated from why we pasteurise milk. Pasteurisation does not affect the lactose content in the milk, and that, combined with whether or not your genes makes you lactose intolerant or not is what determines whether or not you handle milk well.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#69

Post by kps »

jqm wrote: post #30

"It also records details about visits to a popular internet journal for Linux operating system users called "the Linux Journal - the Original Magazine of the Linux Community", and calls it an "extremist forum"." WTF? I guess I am on a list. Who knew being an extremist was so easy?

No, it doesn't say that Linux Journal itself is an ‘extremist forum’. It says that TAILs is “advocated by extremists on extremist forums”, and includes Linux Journal as a source of information about TAILs, neither of which seem surprising.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#70

Post by higherpurpose »

pessimizer wrote: post #20

Of course this happens, and it's an obvious technique. I'm sure that not having a facebook account adds to your score, using AdBlock adds to your score, mentioning the NSA online adds to your score, refusing cookies adds to your score, using Linux adds to your score, etc. That's how a police state works. (XKeyScore += 5) My mother was involved in civil rights, so she has a file. It's fine that I have a file too. Hope…

Amplify this by 100, and welcome to Minority Report, where you get a arrested for having a "very high score".

This is where the "mass surveillance" and "let's monitor everyone just in case they might do something bad" thinking inevitably ends up.

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