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New York’s Shadow Transit

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Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#61

Post by astrec »

vijucat wrote: post #53
kiwidrew wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong has thousands of minibuses, which are -- surprisingly -- more expensive than the bus or subway, but can often be twice as fast. (In part because they are notorious for driving dangerously.) The drivers and vehicles are actually licensed these days, but in almost all aspects they still operate in a very "informal" way; there's no route maps, for instance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_light_bus

"Twelve dollars, twelve minutes" (to Mong Kok from Kennedy Town), as a local said to me about the red minibus :-) 12 HKD is 1.5 USD. The route is this on Google Maps, which notes that the distance of approximately 8 km should take "13 min without traffic". So 12 minutes is basically dangerous driving! https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Kennedy+Town,+Hong+Kong/Mong...

$10/22 minutes Causeway Bay --> Stanley. Hang on to your hat!

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#62

Post by nickonline »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #19
jrockway wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's racism, I think that's business. Taking someone from Penn Station to Grand Central Terminal is pure profit, because it's fast and you're guaranteed a fare once you get to Grand Central. Taking someone from low-density area A to low-density area B is less profitable, so you don't see many cabs in these low-density areas. I see this in action all the time, because I tend to bike late at night when…

since they have to if flagged down Do they abide by this rule 100%? How is it monitored or enforced?

If it's anything like where I live it's not necessarily monitored or enforced. If you accidentally tell the cabbie where you want to go before getting in they'll just drive off.

If you're already in the cab when you tell them then they're not likely to tell you to get out.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#63

Post by pyb »

WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

This does not exist in London or Paris.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#64

Post by kijin »

WildUtah wrote: post #57
kijin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most parts of American cities (and their suburbs) are covered with nothing but hundreds of blocks of dreary, monotonous, cookie-cutter single-family homes. Outside the city center, the population density drops dramatically. How many people do you think in a block full of single-family homes? A couple hundred at most. Contrast this with a city like Seoul, where nearly every block is filled with condos and apartments,…

But it does get a bit suffocating, Doesn't Seoul have a huge belt of mountains to go skiing and hiking in just a couple miles outside the outer subway stations? Maybe even closer around places like Seouldae? That's a pretty good option for open space. I agree that US suburbia is stifling in its own way and hostile to transit and dollar vans. Still, LA, SF, Chicago, and NYC have plenty of places they could work. Those…

> Those density figures are misleading ... The populated parts of Tokyo and Seoul are of similar density (as is Mexico City)

I'm not disputing that. The difference is that the "populated parts" of Seoul comprise the entire habitable area of the city, which is what makes public transit so affordable even for those who live in the outskirts.

There is no low-density "sprawl" in or around Seoul. It's all high-rise apartments and condos until you abruptly hit some sort of obstacle (like a mountain). It makes little difference which counties and districts you pick. Of the 25 wards that make up Seoul, the one with the lowest population density has 25K per sq mi. The highest has 74K. So the peak is lower than NYC, but the standard deviation is much lower as well. In other words, there's less diversity of living arrangements.

A random residential area in the outskirts of Seoul looks like [1].

A random residential area in the outskirts of NYC looks like [2].

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@37.564524,126.846419,3a,75y,186...

[2] https://www.google.com/maps/@40.706197,-73.754464,3a,75y,172...

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#65

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

This doesn't exist in London. The London underground, overground and bus routes are extensive, and the black taxis and minicabs fill in the gap for a moderate fee.

You will however find something much like this well established in large cities in Sub-Saharan Africa under the name "Matatu" or "Minibus taxi" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_taxi#South_Africa

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#66

Post by dcposch »

> “Back in the day, officers used to harass us day and night: throw van keys on the roof, throw them in the garbage, bring us into the station just for driving a van.” An N.Y.P.D. spokeswoman didn’t respond to a request for comment

The sad thing is that stories like those don't even seem to elicit surprise.

We need a way to refocus our police on their mission, to "protect and serve". We need to demand more professionalism from them. It's a difficult challenge. By nature, the job attracts a lot of bad applicants along with the good.

"officers used to [...] throw van keys on the roof, throw them in the garbage"

Why do we tolerate people walking our cities with guns and tasers who behave like schoolyard bullies?

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#67

Post by icebraining »

_delirium wrote: post #28
sparkman55 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, that's the gap. It's about a mile from the commuter rail to downtown, and the public transit options between are quite slow. It's no wonder that private transportation startups abound in San Francisco. I guess I'm spoiled by the well-interconnected transit systems in many international cities; step off the (high-speed) intercity rail and downstairs into the core of a robust subway system, or walk to the bus term…

Have you considered the other popular transit option in international cities, riding a bike? In Copenhagen you do not cover 2km distances by Lyft, Uber, or a bus, because 2km is such a trivial distance you just bike it yourself in a few minutes. And yes, even if you have two kids and groceries with you— because cargo bikes are common and easy ( http://daneshea.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/IMG_10731.jpg ).

Cargo bikes seem great if you're doing the whole trip in them, but not really appropriate for a trip that involves using a light rail or bus as well, like Caltrain.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#68

Post by guard-of-terra »

WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

In Moscow they exist and are official. I've caught one today while heading to work - 317м to be precise.

Vans changed transportation landscape massively in late 90s, and for good. Some villages which had like five busses per day now are served by a van every half an hour.

Re: New York’s Shadow Transit

#69

Post by chipsy »

WildUtah wrote: post #16

This is a great story. It's a look at how people really live in a modern city and the border between formal and informal commerce. One of the key research targets in modern sociology and economics and political science is the emergence of institutions like dollar vans. It's very difficult to get a public system to cover every route and part of the city that needs transit, but most city authorities are reluctant to li…

Minibus systems appear everywhere, especially in poorer developing countries with fast-growing cities. They tend to be inefficient by dint of the market equilibrium creating a single, vastly overserved "downtown hub".

There are some projects to map them, for example:

[0] http://lusakapublictransportmap.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/and...

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