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Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

gar1t.com

61–70 of 128 posts

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#61

This thing is completely unreadable on a phone. Does it have a more phone-friendly version somewhere?

It's not really much better on a browser. It took me about 10 minutes of clicking and swiping to figure out that you're meant to use the cursor keys to navigate. What a shitty user experience...

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#62

Does that RedMonk chart not show that it is fairly cool? You have C# and Java at the top - I wouldn't call them cool, widespread, not cool. It's above, on both axes Arduino, Dart, TypeScript. It's in the vicinity of Clojure, Go, CoffeeScript.

>It's above, on both axes Arduino...

Does anyone know why they would include a hardware device among a ranking of programming languages? The most prominent language used to program Arduinos is probably C, followed by C++ and then AVR assembly.

I don't understand why they would include it among programming languages.

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#64

Meta but I really wish we could ban the phrase "cool kids" from the programming community. It has a terrible connotation (high school cliques). And it feels out of place, especially when we're talking about something like practical choices about what programming language and tooling we choose. Even when talking about "trendy" languages and frameworks it's a poor choice of words because no one really make these choice…

gar1t is the guy that blew up "cool kids". He is doing better than banning the phrase. He is making it ridiculous. http://youtu.be/5GpOfwbFRcs?t=2m30s

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#65

Meta but I really wish we could ban the phrase "cool kids" from the programming community. It has a terrible connotation (high school cliques). And it feels out of place, especially when we're talking about something like practical choices about what programming language and tooling we choose. Even when talking about "trendy" languages and frameworks it's a poor choice of words because no one really make these choice…

If you watch the video of the talk on vimeo below, the author addresses this issue head on at the start of his talk. The thesis is that there are many developers that use technologies for capricious reasons such as because other people do it, rather than for solid reasons of engineering.

In my experience, huge swaths of the real world of software development are not wholly reasonable, objective, nor immune to groupthink. There's plenty of posturing and social signaling going on among developers.

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Akka can't magically patch over the JVM's shared memory model: http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/snapshot/general/jmm.html#jmm-s... And because the JVM does global stop-the-world garbage collection, which makes soft real-time implausible because of the unpredictability of GC affecting your actors. Erlang has per-process heaps. Basically the Erlang VM was created for this use case while the JVM was not, and its not…

Java/Scala do allow you to do bad things. So add the following to Hershel's question: "Assume developers are non-malicious and will only pass immutable objects across actor/future boundaries." Also, I'm not that familiar with Erlang's memory model, so I might be wrong on this. But as far as I'm aware the memory for a message in Erlang is shared between threads - it's only local variables that use private memory. This…

Hopefully with the upcoming Spores[1] feature in Scala, Akka will be able to enforce message immutability in some form. I was at Scala Days last week and the developer behind spores gave a great talk on the sort of immutability guarantees this feature will allow. Worth watching once it's posted online.

[1] http://docs.scala-lang.org/sips/pending/spores.html

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#67

Meta but I really wish we could ban the phrase "cool kids" from the programming community. It has a terrible connotation (high school cliques). And it feels out of place, especially when we're talking about something like practical choices about what programming language and tooling we choose. Even when talking about "trendy" languages and frameworks it's a poor choice of words because no one really make these choice…

[deleted]

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#68
post #11

Since there are actor libraries like akka targeting the JVM and claiming to offer similar benefits, why should someone prefer erlang?

Erlang allows the actors to be spread across physical nodes. It's like a cluster OS, not just a language that uses an actor model. Do any of the library actor models offer something like that?

Akka certainly does. At the company I work for all our heavy lifting is done by an Akka cluster running on EC2.

We found that the difficulty didn't lay in getting Akka to work in a clustered fashion—that was simple—but rather in architecting our backend's work distribution mechanics so as not to overload any given node. I blogged about our experience with Akka: http://blog.goconspire.com/post/64130417462/akka-at-conspire...

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#69
post #65

Meta but I really wish we could ban the phrase "cool kids" from the programming community. It has a terrible connotation (high school cliques). And it feels out of place, especially when we're talking about something like practical choices about what programming language and tooling we choose. Even when talking about "trendy" languages and frameworks it's a poor choice of words because no one really make these choice…

If you watch the video of the talk on vimeo below, the author addresses this issue head on at the start of his talk. The thesis is that there are many developers that use technologies for capricious reasons such as because other people do it, rather than for solid reasons of engineering. In my experience, huge swaths of the real world of software development are not wholly reasonable, objective, nor immune to groupth…

I'm definitely going to take time to watch his talk because the slides are excellent. And I agree with you wholeheartedly that the real world of software development is not wholly filled with reasonable people that strive for objectivity. Though in a serious conversation about technology adoption I'm not sure the best strategy is to target the unreasonable people. After all, are those even the people you want as advocates of your favorite technology? What you probably want is to win over the reasonable people and let the followers follow.

Also, "other people do it" is not a capricious reason for adopting technology. It's not an engineering reason, but there are reasons to follow the crowd. If there is a crowd there will probably be lots of libraries, if there is a crowd there are more people that may do the thankless work of documenting and patching libraries, if there is a crowd there are more people to answer questions on stack overflow. The crowd may not be an engineering reason but it can definitely be a productivity reason.

Re: Why The Cool Kids Don't Use Erlang

#70

This thing is completely unreadable on a phone. Does it have a more phone-friendly version somewhere?

It's not really much better on a browser. It took me about 10 minutes of clicking and swiping to figure out that you're meant to use the cursor keys to navigate. What a shitty user experience...

Explain downvote please.
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