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The day I left my son in the car

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Re: The day I left my son in the car

#61

Post by darklajid »

anigbrowl wrote: post #45
baddox wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the father became unconscious, had a stroke or a heart attack, etc. while driving or doing anything with the child away from other people, the child could die.

Yes, but people would know the child was there. If someone fall down unconscious in the middle of the supermarket nobody knows which car they arrived in, or even for sure that they arrived in a car, and nobody knows about the unattended child. That's a different kind of risk. On the other hand, for the person in the parking lot to film the child in the car and call police, but not make any contact with the child or w…

The argument still sucks. Given a reasonable choice in the beginning ("The weather's cool, the kid strapped in, car is secured, will be right back") the kid would - what? Complain and cry after a while? It's a four year old boy with a tendency (if you read between the lines) to throw fits. Maybe all boys are like that..

If the mother (to stay with the original article) would've fallen unconscious or dead in the supermarket, nevermind that both options would have some consequences for the family, the kid would've been fine.

Calling the cops was fine. Creepy the way it was described, but okay.

Cops arriving was fine. That's their job.

"Huh? The "abandoned" kid is gone already? Let's trace the car and take out our frustration on .. the mother?" wasn't fine. That was just braindead. The correct movie quote variation would've been "Nothing happened, move along".

Theoretical "But here's how the kid could've died" arguments are .. weird. And countless.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#62

Post by bpackard »

Imagine what would have happened if she stood firm, and brought little Simon NoNo into the store. He proceeds to throw a fit, and then [gasp!] she threatens to, or even does, spank him in the butt. She'd have likely been arrested and missed the flight home.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#63

Post by jaimebuelta »

All this seems crazy... It seems like we are not able to understand some risks and gave up directly to irrational fears... In particular anything related to kids.

I respect people with irrational fears, and understand that sometimes happen. For example fear or flying.

But we seem to accept that just because someone has that kind of fear is ok to act like that fear was a real danger. As the article said, driving is, comparatively, a huge risk compared with things like kid abductions or terrorist attacks. We seem not to give a dam to drive four hours a day, but be scared to death if we cross someone on a dark street...

We are simply terrible evaluating risks, and be more fearful each day...

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#64

Post by jaimebuelta »

All this seems crazy... It seems like we are not able to understand some risks and gave up directly to irrational fears... In particular anything related to kids.

I respect people with irrational fears, and understand that sometimes happen. For example fear or flying.

But we seem to accept that just because someone has that kind of fear is ok to act like that fear was a real danger. As the article said, driving is, comparatively, a huge risk compared with things like kid abductions or terrorist attacks. We seem not to give a dam to drive four hours a day, but be scared to death if we cross someone on a dark street...

We are simply terrible evaluating risks, and be more fearful each day...

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#65

Post by sluukkonen »

valarauca1 wrote: post #23
sampo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be interested in hearing non-US perspectives on this. Finland here. Some people would leave a child in a car when they conduct a short errand, and some people would not, and the latter might frown upon the former. But the law enforcement would never ever get involved. That Salon article is just absurd. A whole new level of American weirdness. (Then again, we rarely have weather as hot as the more southern count…

I don't exactly mean to question this, but in Finland is it common for the inside of cars to reach 40-50C within an hour during the summer?

During the hottest days of the summer (it very rarely goes above 28C or so - average maximum temperature is around 22C during the hottest summer months in southern Finland), yes, but not that often.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#66

Post by darklajid »

DanBC wrote: post #56
anigbrowl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but people would know the child was there. If someone fall down unconscious in the middle of the supermarket nobody knows which car they arrived in, or even for sure that they arrived in a car, and nobody knows about the unattended child. That's a different kind of risk. On the other hand, for the person in the parking lot to film the child in the car and call police, but not make any contact with the child or w…

Approaching a young child who has been left alone in a car is foolish in today's paranoic society. Also, the returning parent is unlikely to be grateful to the comments of "I was just making sure your left alone child was not dying".

That is an entirely different world of crazy that doesn't belong here, does it?

Are we going to turn this into a 'You need to be careful about talking to a child' debate? If you cannot address/talk to a child, things are worse OUTSIDE of that car.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#67

Post by DanBC »

baddox wrote: post #32
DanBC wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent runs into store for few minutes, trips and knocks head becoming unconcious / has stroke / has heart attack / etc etc - child dies. Having said that, This story is a really good example of how tough it is for some parents and how hostile society is to parenting.

If the father became unconscious, had a stroke or a heart attack, etc. while driving or doing anything with the child away from other people, the child could die.

Yes, driving to the store is considerably more dangerous for the child (even if it's in correctly fitted car seat (and many children are not)) than being left for a few minutes in the car.

Still, leaving the child alone leaves them open to more risk than taking them out of the car.

This parent was not buying anything important - just headphones for a child - and they took the wasy options by i) taking child to shops and ii) not taking child out of car.

I don't criticise other people's parenting because I am particularly lucky with my son but the idea of leaving my nearly-four-yo son unaccompanied (out of eyesight) fills me with cold fear.

Again, the problem here isn't that they left their son for a few minutes in a car, it is that society is pretty hostile to parents and parenting, simultaneously being quick to judge and slow to offer any real support.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#68

Post by yason »

valarauca1 wrote: post #23
sampo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be interested in hearing non-US perspectives on this. Finland here. Some people would leave a child in a car when they conduct a short errand, and some people would not, and the latter might frown upon the former. But the law enforcement would never ever get involved. That Salon article is just absurd. A whole new level of American weirdness. (Then again, we rarely have weather as hot as the more southern count…

I don't exactly mean to question this, but in Finland is it common for the inside of cars to reach 40-50C within an hour during the summer?

Less than an hour, I'd say. A warm summer day can easily be 25-30C, typically 20-25C. That's enough to go to 50C in an hour, windows closed, even on a half-cloudy day.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#69

Post by DanBC »

darklajid wrote: post #61
anigbrowl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but people would know the child was there. If someone fall down unconscious in the middle of the supermarket nobody knows which car they arrived in, or even for sure that they arrived in a car, and nobody knows about the unattended child. That's a different kind of risk. On the other hand, for the person in the parking lot to film the child in the car and call police, but not make any contact with the child or w…

The argument still sucks. Given a reasonable choice in the beginning ("The weather's cool, the kid strapped in, car is secured, will be right back") the kid would - what? Complain and cry after a while? It's a four year old boy with a tendency (if you read between the lines) to throw fits. Maybe all boys are like that.. If the mother (to stay with the original article) would've fallen unconscious or dead in the super…

I agree that the police reaction is sub-optimal, but there are reasons not to tie a child to a seat and lock them into a car and then leave them unsupervised, even if that is for a few minutes.

Re: The day I left my son in the car

#70

Post by tptacek »

I've flagged down a cop seeing a kid alone in a car, and would do it again.

Should people who leave their toddlers in cars be prosecuted criminally? That's a complicated question. In almost every reasonable case the answer is probably "no".

But this article doesn't really grapple with that question. Instead, it's a stew of rationalization and misdirection. It is literally an argument for leaving kids alone in cars. "I immunize my kids. I know pools are dangerous." Yeah, and you left a four year old alone in a parked car. You brought it up. BAD CALL. "This other parent let their nine-year-old ride the subway by themselves." Well, I think that's a bad call too, but who cares? Nine isn't four, the subway isn't a parked car.

"And then I left him in the car for about five minutes. He didn’t die. He wasn’t kidnapped or assaulted or forgotten or dragged across state lines by a carjacker. When I returned to the car, he was still playing his game, smiling."

Asshole. The risks to a four year old child left alone in a parked car aren't that the boogeyman might steal them.

If you want to read a piece that seriously grapples with this issue, read Gene Weingarten's "Fatal Distraction" from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02...

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