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Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

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Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#61
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's in SEK so about 5m € or 7m $. Nobody knows how much money they made or even has an estimate. But they did have lots of advertising for years on one of the worlds most popular sites and their costs for running it were minimal. They are bound to have made something from it.

>costs for running it were minimal What makes you say that?

There's a quote from 2006 saying that their monthly hosting costs where 15k SEK (2k USD). But also, one of the owners of the hosting company was also the one running the tpb site.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#62

Gottfrid Svartholm is currently being held in solitary confinement in Denmark, Peter Sunde is arrested in Sweden. I thought these countries were like role models.

Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.

I have my own feelings about it which that it is not really theft, but perhaps it is worth considering that the work of musicians and artists is devalued. I hear a lot of rationalization about how the artists don't get any money anyway, but I personally think that is a separate issue from sharing music.

It's an interesting question, especially when you mention software. Because here on HN and other forums I get the impression the majority are in favor of TPB. The more interesting thing is when somebody is caught appropriating a site design, graphics, violates GPL, etc there will be universal rage against them. I guess it is different when you are on the receiving vs. the providing side of things.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.

When you examine the topic at a level beyond "it's theft", you may conclude that imaginary property is unsustainable in a world with private communications, decide privacy is the more worthy goal, and view those corrupting justice to preserve dying business models as the crooks.

> ... decide privacy is the more worthy goal...

Essentially you are saying, My information is mine and should be under my control because privacy. But your information is "imaginary property" and anyone should be able to take it whenever they wish, because dying business models corruption crooks. Hilarious!

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#64
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.

Sharing is at worst a victimless crime. At best.. well I don't know about best but I'd say something about living in the future where we have the technological means to give people anything they need or want. That if something is wealth. And progress. Thievery is an inappropriate description of making copies.

I'm not making any judgement on whether it should be legal/illegal etc. but I think saying it's a victimless crime at worst is potentially incorrect.

In the worst case, it's absolutely possible that you share something with someone, A, which A would have bought and then they don't buy it. In the worst case they don't in the future buy anything from the author/creator etc. In the worst case I'd consider that author/creator a victim in this case, they would have been paid whatever amount A would have paid but now haven't been.

I'm not arguing that's often the case (I don't think it is) but to absolutely rule it out feels like too much of a simplification. There can be a legitimate victim, it almost certainly isn't the person suing you and in most cases there probably isn't - but there can be I think.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#65
post #43

Too bad he didn't made to the EU Parliament. That makes two out of the three in jail, which is very saddening. I wonder what will happen to Frederik: I doubt they will just let him be. They are beating three to scare millions.

He's in Laos, and according to TPB AFK he will stay there wanking for 5 years.

Yes, I know (one on and one off). They can catch him anyway, like they did with Gottfried.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#66
post #38
post #2

Relevant: If you haven't seen it, TPB: AFK is a fantastic documentary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPB_AFK http://watch.tpbafk.tv/

Not enough to fully understand the situation, but great documentary. Highly recommended. Freely available, of course, so here's a magnet link, for those unwilling to open their PirateBrowser / to bypass TPB censorship. magnet:?xt=urn:btih:98a2faaf2393aa4494bdc4f01f50ec3d010de8cf&dn=TPB%20AFK%202013%20The%20Pirate%20Bay%20Away%20From%20Keyboard%20SimonKlose&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A…

[deleted]

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#67
post #43

Too bad he didn't made to the EU Parliament. That makes two out of the three in jail, which is very saddening. I wonder what will happen to Frederik: I doubt they will just let him be. They are beating three to scare millions.

He's in Laos, and according to TPB AFK he will stay there wanking for 5 years.

Yes, I know (one on and one off). They can catch him anyway, like they did with Gottfried.

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#68
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is also a 20 year limit to prison sentences, no matter the crime. That seems mildly misleading. Sentences can be extended beyond 20 years as long as the person is still believed to be dangerous to society.

Not in Portugal. They may extend to 25 by accumulation, but other than that, the limit is absolute. You may conclude that someone is insane and force them to be institutionalized, but that is not prison, and the decision is not ever final.

I don't think I'd be really comfortable with convicted serial murderers walking around. Hell, any murderer. Manslaughter can be a mistake or an accident, but if you intentionally aggressively killed someone I'd rather not be walking past you on a street or participating with you in an open market...

I don't believe in the death penalty, but I also believe an essential function of prison is to remove the irredeemable from society so they aren't a threat anymore. I'm not sure you can classify anyone insane just for wanting to kill people, but I'm also not a psychologist. I also would not want to be the psychologist who released a serial murder considering him safe to return to society only for him to on another murder spree...

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#69
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be a troll, but aren't these people essentially supporting theivery on a massive scale? I've never understood why so much of the Internet community thinks downloading software and/or movies that is meant to be paid for is ok.

> supporting theivery on a massive scale? That depends on your attitude. Only a very small minority of content creators make a living from that activity. Some people are always going to be cheapskates of varying degrees. Unless they are actually manufacturing and selling counterfeit copies of my books, in my view it doesn't rise to the level of a tort, much less a crime. Google indexes downloads of my books. What con…

How would your comments apply to the use case of distributing GPL software derivatives instead of digital movies?

Re: Peter Sunde arrested in Sweden

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you examine the topic at a level beyond "it's theft", you may conclude that imaginary property is unsustainable in a world with private communications, decide privacy is the more worthy goal, and view those corrupting justice to preserve dying business models as the crooks.

> ... decide privacy is the more worthy goal... Essentially you are saying, My information is mine and should be under my control because privacy. But your information is "imaginary property" and anyone should be able to take it whenever they wish, because dying business models corruption crooks. Hilarious!

There is a very real difference between people voluntarilly sharing the information they have, and breaking and entering into someones personal networks to steal stuff.

When you torrent a file, you are never participating in an involuntary transaction. And very little torrented material is procured through breaking into secure networks - an example of that would be the half life 2 prerelease source break in.

These are people performing legal valid transactions with businesses (be they physical discs, or digital downloads) and then they share the information they now posses, but under copyright do not own (you never own it unless you are the creator or rights holder) with others that want that information.

Like I said, if you break the encryption on someones private network to steal their data that is still a violation of their property rights because you are breaking in. You aren't stealing, but the act of breaking in is still violating their property rights, or in this context their right to security.

In movie terms, it would be fine for a movie studio to create a film, and never distribute it. Then it is theirs, privately, and nobody has the right to forcibly take it from them, even if the encoded information is valuable to someone or useful. But when they start selling DVDs outside the studios front door, and you buy one and go home with it, rip it and share it on TPB, there is never a violation of voluntary exchange or property rights besides you breaking an implied contract with the media distributor that nobody understands exists and thus no market in the world is operating without it. People also break contracts all the time, and that usually doesn't result in a jail sentence, it results in a secession of business. And IP is ridiculous in how you enter perpetual contracts by having a sequence of polarized magnetic splotches on a composite disk.

Hell, when people try to release software public domain (like sqlite) there is a massive legal morass and their disclosure license is pages long just to cover all the corner cases.

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