61–70 of 242 posts
That pretty much reiterates my points from last time we discussed (not many hours ago). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7801004 Besides what already was said. It is also important to emphasize that Python 2 is already pretty good. So it is not that Python 3 is bad, it is just that it is very hard to improve on 2. Ironing out the warts is good, but this was not the right time. This should have happened 7-10 years…
The idea that people move from Python specifically to Go is one of those chestnuts of conventional wisdom that never receives any kind of backing in actual data. If you think that Python and Go are made for the same tasks then you're really confused.
Well, from TFA: "Again, they’re not many, but they are quite vocal (including whole startup dev teams blogging about switching their codebase), and enough to create a certain buzz (and to surprise Rob Pike, who initially expected people to come to Go from C/C++)".
Data are always hazy in our industry -- who knows what each company/developer uses? But we can gauge interest from the discussion around something. So:
1) Go had several known startups (and established companies) post that they migrated some of their services to it from Python.
2) We have Rob Pike, who wrote a couple of years go he was surprised seeing most in the Go community come from Python, whereas he expected them to come from C/C++.
Now, I don't know what you mean "If you think that Python and Go are made for the same tasks then you're really confused". What's confusing? Sure, Python has some unique niches (like scientific computing), but there's a lot of stuff people use Python that they could (and are) use Go for.
I'm sure you've heard of Twisted. Go solves a similar problem quite nicely. Also: RESTful services. But even more so, people also use Go for glue stuff, including for stuff previously relegated to a scripting language.
It's not that huge numbers are leaving Python for Go. Perhaps not even 1%. But it's a vocal 1%, and it might also be an influential 1%.
Heck, at some point Perl was king of the hill for scripting and web application development. But then 1% went to Python, and 1% went to Ruby. And then they continued going...
As much as I wanted to like this article (I remain optimistic about the future of Python as Python 3) wouldn't most of the compelling additional features suggested break backwards compatibility with current versions of Python 3? This strikes me more as a proposal for a Python 4 than a revitalization of Python 3. edit: I wanted to respond to this myself, since upon rereading I no longer get the impression the proposed…
> Newer programmers are not that impressed with either version of Python. Any evidence? If it's personal experience, then mine is exactly the opposite. I don't know if such a thing exists, but maybe a big list of the main changes would help convince people more (type annotations, yield from, the forthcoming @ operator). From what I've seen and read, of course all this is somewhere in the docs and release notes, but I…
Sure, people introduced to Python for the first time might find it impressive, but what about people who know Python and also are tempted by Go, Clojure, etc.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of curiosity: why?
I use map(print, list_of_tuples) quite a bit, but that possibly an artifact of my print-based debugging. I can only do this with print as a function rather than a statement, and the single line makes it easy to drop in or comment out as needed.
Not as nice, but doable.
Python is not dying and if so, Go would not be the reason why. Sure, Python is not functional, not compiled, not mobile, not Rails and not in the browser. But I can not imagine the languages, which are all this, to spread so nice and readable from command line scripts to scientific computing to big server applications. Python's use cases will not go anywhere, so don't panic: Python is doing just fine and improving in…
> Python is not dying and if so, Go would not be the reason why It is a death by multiple paper cuts. Go is just one of the cuts. Besides Go (and others have mentioned so I am just repeating them). There is Node.js (Javascript), Rust, Dart, Clojure, Julia, C++11, Java (due to Python never making it far on Android). Not one is enough to eat Python's lunch as they say, but they all are taking a little nibble and soon e…
I'd say python took the place that would today be Perl's, were it not for the whole Perl 6 fiasco, and that none of the supposed contenders actually vie for that exact spot,
One pain point I've really felt recently with Python is in the deploy step. pip installing dependencies with a requirements.txt file seems to be the recommended way, but it's far from easy. Many dependencies (such as PyTables) don't install their own dependencies automatically, so you are left with a fragile one-by-one process for getting library code in place. It was all fine once I got it worked out but it would so…
Otherwise you are just asking for nasty surprises when packages upgrade.
The biggest problem with python 3 as i see it is that it seems to cause people to air grand opinions unencumbered by any actual data. I have seen neither evidence that python is "dieing" in any way, nor that people are dropping it because it lacks radical new feature X. Things may be more competitive now but I don't see any stagnation in the community - and that's always been one of python's strongest points.
Yeah. I'm sure there weren't that kind of hard numeric evidence about Perl dying either.
Perhaps, you know, what languages are getting adoption and which might be lossing traction is more of a "sensing the buzz" and following community discussions affair, than some statistic bureau giving hard counts.
>nor that people are dropping it because it lacks radical new feature X
Well, I'd say people EXPLICITLY posting "our team left Python because of it's bad concurrency story and went with Go" is evidence of people "dropping it because it lacks radical new feature X". And we've seen a few of such posts in the past year. Also a couple high profile Python devs migrate to languages such as Go.
One pain point I've really felt recently with Python is in the deploy step. pip installing dependencies with a requirements.txt file seems to be the recommended way, but it's far from easy. Many dependencies (such as PyTables) don't install their own dependencies automatically, so you are left with a fragile one-by-one process for getting library code in place. It was all fine once I got it worked out but it would so…