Live data from Hacker News

Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

help.jetblue.com

61–70 of 221 posts

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#61
post #59

Why didn't phone have Q and Z? Everyone is mentioning that they did not have them, but I can't find a reason for that.

it was the simplest way to map 3 letters to each number 1-9 on the keypad.[1] that way you didn't have a few numbers with 4 letters and had a consistent model.

[1] my grandfather explained it this way back in the early '80s. I couldn't find a good link to a more official source.

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#62
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find that scary. I think it's a testament to the original architects and to the people who maintain it.

I'm not sure about that. Sabre is an extremely (assumption) functional tool in an extremely niche market. That makes the barrier to enter it very high, and the barrier to rewrite equally so. Underneath the covers it could be a real piece hung together by duct tape and vacuum tubes, but why rewrite it if it's working and keeping planes in the air?

Because OMG HACKERS. Seriously, why do we have any security on anything?

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#63
post #55
post #54

If they were OK with applying more duct tape, why not map Q and Z to characters (eg. A and B) that can be part of passwords? (eg. a password of "quiz" would become "auib") It would make their password system slightly weaker perhaps, since freq(a) then becomes more like freq(a)+freq(q) and freq(b) more like freq(b)+freq(z). I'm not sure that's much weaker than just excluding Q and Z, though. The user experience is imp…

Or you map them to something like: Q = ABDHCJSKJDHSSS Z = YYYDUHUHUHSSYS ... to avoid weakening the password.

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but for the benefit of people who don't know any better: such a scheme would not meaningfully impact the strength of the password storage scheme at all. (To prove it to yourself, think about how rainbow tables work. Then consider how little additional work would be required to replace all Q's and Z's with the appropriate string before making the table. It's not much different from having a "salt" that's the same for every user in your application, which also doesn't meaningfully impact the strength of the password storage scheme.)

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#65
post #59

Why didn't phone have Q and Z? Everyone is mentioning that they did not have them, but I can't find a reason for that.

it was the simplest way to map 3 letters to each number 1-9 on the keypad.[1] that way you didn't have a few numbers with 4 letters and had a consistent model. [1] my grandfather explained it this way back in the early '80s. I couldn't find a good link to a more official source.

Except that 3 * 9 = 27, and there are only 26 letters in the English alphabet. They are actually mapped to the numbers 2-9, which leaves the question of why they didn't use 1.

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#66
post #38
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find that scary. I think it's a testament to the original architects and to the people who maintain it.

It's 2014. Passwords need to be treated as a serious matter. Legacy system or not, there is no good reason to reduce keyspace. As others have mentioned, this is a sign that passwords are being made compatible with old phones without these letters available... and likely the passwords being reduced to numbers before storage. The prohibition of special characters also seems to corroborate this. Furthermore, the poster…

Or emailing them before they hash them.

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#67
post #56

Actually this kind of gives me an idea: what if modern systems decided to just tell people they can't use "p" so that people stop using the word "password" or variants as their password. Hell, for that matter, tell users they can't use vowels so they can't make words. They might do leet speak, or whatever which is pretty easy to crack given time, but it stops things like password re-use attacks (people less likely to…

Correct Horse Battery Staple[1] is a good example of a good password with high entropy, bzzl123 is not. Something like that would surely do more harm than good.

http://xkcd.com/936/

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#68
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I can't stand passwords sent as part of a welcome email, this does not actually mean that they store the passwords in plaintext. Often, companies will send the username and password as part of a welcome email upon the user registering (and the above screenshots look exactly like that). This does not preclude the company from then hashing the password and storing it hashed. That said, it still is a terrible prac…

Oh yeah. It's impossible to know who has your plaintext password on the backend (even steam who RSA encrypts your pw with a public key before sending), but this certainly is a bad practice and certainly makes it look like they do not have robust security practices.

Or too many end users that forget their passwords. Never underestimate the costs of supporting password resets for nontechnical users.

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#69

That's ok, here's a better one. etrade - yeah, THAT etrade? Yeah. They make your passwords case-insensitive.

As does Citibank. I imagine it's for telling-support-over-the-phone purposes, which isn't great.

...why would you have to tell them your password in the first place?

Re: Passwords for JetBlue accounts cannot contain a Q or a Z

#70
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was the simplest way to map 3 letters to each number 1-9 on the keypad.[1] that way you didn't have a few numbers with 4 letters and had a consistent model. [1] my grandfather explained it this way back in the early '80s. I couldn't find a good link to a more official source.

Except that 3 * 9 = 27, and there are only 26 letters in the English alphabet. They are actually mapped to the numbers 2-9, which leaves the question of why they didn't use 1.

The local prefixes of phone numbers don't/couldn't start with 1. If you map ABC to 1, you can't use those letters as the start of a word. (Your number could be GET-SOME but not AND-MORE.) This is because when you dial without an area code, your leading 1 would be interpreted as a long distance call. This is the same reason they didn't use 0, as that's the start of an international call (011).
Post reply on HN