Live data from Hacker News

LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

lxqt.org

61–70 of 130 posts

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#61
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://etoileos.com/etoile/ http://fluxbox.org/screenshots/ http://awesome.naquadah.org/ http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/ http://windowmaker.org/

etoileos - last news update 2012 and wasn't even about the project fluxbox - active and kind've interesting awesome - more of just a WM than full DE ratpoison - ditto enlightenment - okay, kind've resembles Win 95 too... but more of a DE than the others you listed windowmaker - been around forever; hasn't really "innovated" in forever; just a NeXT clone if I remember correctly for GNUStep I think my point stands. I w…

>windowmaker - been around forever; hasn't really "innovated" in forever; just a NeXT clone if I remember correctly for GNUStep

>enlightenment - okay, kind've resembles Win 95 too... but more of a DE than the others you listed

> etoileos - last news update 2012 and wasn't even about the project

What you seem to be missing is that these projects died because people thought they were weird, which is to say, innovation in the DE space pays negative rent, and that's no good, especially not from the perspective of an open-source project, which, the social dynamics of open-source dictate that projects need to acquire a large userbase to sustain an active development community for more than a couple years, that is to say, to make people keep working on it after the "new project smell" wears off.

In other words your observation is a direct consequence of the choices in DE that users have made and continue to make.

The recent trend has been towards modularity, and while you dismiss awesome and ratpoison, a major boon of LXDE et al is that, unlike Windows 95, you can replace the window manager with xmonad and still use all of the other components of LXDE. Modularity brings innovation to the people who want it while satisfying the large majority of users who apparently do not.

There's no reason for LXDE to ship anything but Openbox; LXDE could certainly switch to xmonad tomorrow, but their users wouldn't be happy. And who wants that?

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#63

How come these things never look refined and polished? Always sort of half nice and Unix-clunk.

Personally I think it's the goddamn panel; I've never seen a Linux panel that looks as nice as its counterparts on Windows and OS X. It seems like a small component, but it really "frames" the whole desktop environment -- like a drumbeat -- and in both OS X and Windows there are some complicated gradients in the panel that I'm almost certain were insisted on by some tweed-clad hipster with a title half a sentence long; to my eye it really does make a difference.

The windows actually look really nice, especially considering it's the default skin.

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#64

I wonder if this will finally replace WindowMaker on my desktops. Don't laugh, it works.

WindowMaker representin'!

It totally does: fast, stable, restartable (kill -USR1 ), lightweight, stays out of the way, easily configurable, portable config files, and a very, very, very consistent UI over the past 17 years that I've been using it (nearly a decade of which it saw virtually no dev activity and, frankly, didn't need it -- updates have started trickling in again).

Thing is, after nearly two decades, it's solidly ingrained into my desktop use habits. And while I try alternatives from time to time, they always leave me running screaming back to good old wmaker.

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#65
post #63

How come these things never look refined and polished? Always sort of half nice and Unix-clunk.

Personally I think it's the goddamn panel; I've never seen a Linux panel that looks as nice as its counterparts on Windows and OS X. It seems like a small component, but it really "frames" the whole desktop environment -- like a drumbeat -- and in both OS X and Windows there are some complicated gradients in the panel that I'm almost certain were insisted on by some tweed-clad hipster with a title half a sentence lon…

Unix desktops always seem to have weird inconsistent margins and fonts that somehow don't look right.

Just doesn't feel nice.

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

etoileos - last news update 2012 and wasn't even about the project fluxbox - active and kind've interesting awesome - more of just a WM than full DE ratpoison - ditto enlightenment - okay, kind've resembles Win 95 too... but more of a DE than the others you listed windowmaker - been around forever; hasn't really "innovated" in forever; just a NeXT clone if I remember correctly for GNUStep I think my point stands. I w…

>windowmaker - been around forever; hasn't really "innovated" in forever; just a NeXT clone if I remember correctly for GNUStep >enlightenment - okay, kind've resembles Win 95 too... but more of a DE than the others you listed > etoileos - last news update 2012 and wasn't even about the project What you seem to be missing is that these projects died because people thought they were weird , which is to say, innovation…

these projects died because people thought they were weird

Actually, at least two of those (E and WindowMaker) remain alive. And WindowMaker's got its fervent fans (you're hearing from one here).

While Raster's continued to plink away at Enlightenment, among the reasons WindowMaker development's been so modest is that it accomplished its mission: provide an implementation of the NexTstep interface. I use wmaker without most of the rest of the GNUstep tools (I find them kind of funky and cumbersome), but the window manager itself is simple, straightforward, and rocks.

It's also very similar under the hood to Aqua as used now in OS X, which for the most part just skins it differently and removes a bunch of features I like -- so while I love wmaker, I really can't function on Macs.

As for userbase. Yeah. I'm aware that I'm in the minority. I'm totally OK with that.

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#67

Please make the new LXQt prettier and more modern, too. I wish I would use LXDE/Lubuntu on older machines, but it's just so ugly I can't stand it. I think the next best thing for people like me right now is the MATE environment for Linux Mint, but it does use a bit more resources than LXDE, too.

I think the majority of dated-ness is due to icons.I bet if you install Faenza icons on this, it'll immediately look a lot more polished.

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#69

The lightweight Linux desktop environments have been battling for years now over who's Windows 95 clone is better. It's a nice paradigm because it's familiar to many users and serves its purpose. However, does low resource usage necessarily imply lack of innovation regarding user experience? Or does familiarity in this space just trump other concerns and experimentation should be left to the fat environments like Gno…

Forget Win95, something like AIX's CDE is all I ever really needed. http://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/wiki/Home/ It's not all about resources. I don't want animations for every action. For me simplicity is elegance.

Having used CDE on both Solaris and Tru64 I can say that CDE was a steaming pile. The day CDE replaced OpenWindows in Solaris was a sad day.

Re: LXQt – The next generation of the Lightweight Desktop Environment

#70
I more or less completely dislike change in my desktop environment. That said, I think there's room for some innovation, particularly simplification, in the Linux space. And if this creates a usable alternative for people, so much the better.

The first principle of GUIs is that there's been very little real innovation since the first demos at Xerox PARC at the Mother of All Demos 46 years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos).

And there's been little reason for it. Once people understand how to interact with the basics of their interface, there's little gain, and a lot of cost, to changing things.

Most computer interaction is textual. Some isn't. Supporting text, formatted text, images, video, and sound is pretty much the entire scope of what needs to be done.

The best interfaces haven't changed much. Apple's Aqua interface is hardly changed from its introduction in 2000 -- that's 14 years. Some visual elements have been modestly restyled, and virtual desktop support added. That's pretty much it.

Other attempts to push radical UI changes on users have been dramatic failures, whether from Microsoft or Linux. Windows 7 was an absolute flop, and I'm among those who've been massively disappointed and frustrated by the GNOME 3 and KDE 4 transitions. While neither is my primary desktop, I do interact with them occasionally, and with apps designed for them more frequently. The experiences have been disappointing and frustrating, to say the least, as well as the attitude shown toward users by the development teams (Linus Torvald's outburst to GNOME was pretty much on point).

The place to experiment, IMO, is precisely where LXQT is: in an experimental space, away from the mainstream. If the desktop does prove useful, people will tend to migrate toward it, as has happened with the xfce desktop: not as featureful as GNOME or KDE, but vastly less frustrating and more useful (I also try it from time to time).

My own home? WindowMaker, which I've used for 17 years. I know it, it knows me, we work well together, and I see no reason to change.

Post reply on HN