Live data from Hacker News

Call for a Better Web

callforabetterweb.org

61–68 of 68 posts

Re: Call for a Better Web

#61
post #4

Hiya. Mind if I make some suggestions on how you can write better in professional communications? Lead with your strengths. Your first paragraph, which is the most important one you will write because it is the one that determines whether the rest of your piece gets read, is filled with self-inflicted strikes against you. English is not my mother tongue and I’m not a great writer, so I am borrowing the words JFK used…

"You are not projecting the image of a driven, with-it individual who is going to take a difficult technical, social, and marketing problem and solve it, making very rich rich men out of everyone associated with the project."

What's wrong with that? I'll take banal truth over exciting falsehoods any day. (Of course exciting truths are even better but you can't have everything)

Re: Call for a Better Web

#62
I am glad to see some more ambitious initiative coming from Italy. Italian culture is not really entrepreneurial (I've spent the past year in Como). That would explain the "one founder" issue you're having.

I like the questions you are raising. I have written about them before and have started playing with my own approach. It is a big project, but unlike yourself, I would not be concerned much about applying to YC with it. YC is not a research incubator but a business, and no matter how cool the people seem to be, they're after the money. Nothing bad, it's just capitalism. YC makes most of the money from the VCs, so they need you to have something that will sell (to VCs). It's a very smart business model that they're running.

If you are really passionate about these issues, you need to build a prototype or specification and throw it out on the web as an open source to get support. I see the possibility of a viable business model in the authentication scheme.

That said, I disagree with your approach to tackling the problems you listed. Your issues are valid, but not the most important. You have not identified the core problem. Consider this. You publish something on the web, the website goes bankrupt or decides to shut down. Your data goes down with it. Your article, your comment, your photo, blog post, this comment I'm writing. We've given all the power of data preservation to the web sites. The web is not preserving it self. If we see it at the biggest library of all, just imagine this, every day a part of it gets burned down.

Making data independent of servers will solve most of the issues you raised. Your address book and contacts belong to servers and web apps, as you said, so you don't manage them. If you were to own the data yourself, and the webapps only managed and used your data, you would have a single point of authentication, single address book, single stream of your produced content.

Think of the desktop vs web app paradigm. We need a platform for applications on the web that will be based on user content. You own your data, but the webapp only uses it to add functionalities. You install a webapp onto your data just as on the desktop. You delete an application (or detach from your data). This would be a new paradigm of the web, where all the control is with the user, the user base is unique on the web without clustering, and applications are just that.

Emails are nothing else but user generated content. We tend to see it differently, but it is absolutely the same, the servers own it. I wrote recently an article about emails describing how much we don't have control over them:

http://www.aleveo.com/ideas/decentralized-email

You do not own your emails. The problem I want to stress is that, as long as someone else owns them, you don't. If no one owns them, you might claim full control. It is the benefit of decentralization.

If you take a route of making another central point of aggregation and data control, you have simply contributed the system you want to change. I would suggest you start thinking in the decentralized direction.

As you said, the web has issues, but you can't build on top of it if you want to change, you need to go lower.

We can take this further if interested dejan dot strbac at aleveo dot com, I will publish the whole thing on www.aleveo.com when I am done with the draft.

I wish you much success with the YC application, I couldn't agree more that such fundamental projects need to be supported rather than useless web bubbles.

Re: Call for a Better Web

#63
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don't know. That problem was bad enough that I didn't think further about what other bad (or good) consequences there might be of letting people make applications public. My gut tells me it would be a bad idea. I sure wouldn't have done it as a founder, and if only lame groups did this, there would be no upside, only downside. But I could be wrong; I haven't thought more about it than what I just wrote.

What if there was a high karma threshold for viewing the apps? Like 1000 or something.

I think 1k is too high. > 100 would probably be enough to get rid of trolls. It's not hard to get to that point, but you have to put in legitimate effort to do so.

Re: Call for a Better Web

#64
This matches project. See http://www.disnetwork.info. I have the technical solution and nearly finished implementing it. I'm currently working on the protocol documentation, which means in depth review of it. Some key information to described the system are not published on the web site. It is just the outline and some detailed discussion of some aspects of it.

Development is unfortunately slow because I'm bootstrapping. Who would invest in a project equivalent to inventing the web ? If you know anyone, please let me know.

Note that this technology can't be owned and should become an open standard. But this is not incompatible with earning money from it. So I have a business model, but it is hard to predict if it can succeed.

Re: Call for a Better Web

#65
No - the internet is not broken. The fact that we are communicating across it attests to that.

What needs to happen is for it to evolve to solve these problems. There are many projects aiming to do just that. We are getting there, but progress is slow.

Re: Call for a Better Web

#66
Don't be so quick to dismiss OpenID and other open data initiatives just because they haven't solved the problem overnight. They are making slow but steady progress, which is all that you can really ask for with such ambitious goals, and all that it takes to achieve them, if you have a little patience.

When I first got my OpenID, this site was the only use I could find for it. Then I could use it on Stackoverflow. Then I could use it to comment on half the blogs in the world with Disqus. And now I can use it with Facebook (somehow.. I haven't got that working yet). This is a remarkable amount of progress for about one year.

The big players are not as averse to this as you make them out to be. Google in particular seems to be open to the idea of open data. They are also making Wave which I could see having a huge democratizing effect on the internet.

I started developing for the web a decade ago and back then, the only way to "share" data from another site was to scrape it, and that was considered hostile. Now everyone has feeds and APIs and the open standards are clearly catching on. I've seen enough to convince me that this trend will continue until the technorati are satisfied. It may take another ten years but that'll do.

Re: Call for a Better Web

#68
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"1. Normal people don't care. Seriously, my mom uses a handful of websites and doesn't really care about any of the problems you mention. If a solution were offered and it was more convenient, she might use it, but it's just not a big deal to her." +1 The OP says why YC won't fund him (single founder, no biz model), but he's overlooking the doozy. YC has freakin' T-SHIRTS that say "Make something people want". Not is…

It's not a question of "normal people" versus ... well, whatever category you want to put here. It's a question of when it's painful: nobody cares about exporting all their data, until their online service loses their account. Then everybody cares. It's a problem 99.9% of people don't have now, but could have at any time. Seatbelts are also a solution to a problem 99.9% of people don't have, but that doesn't mean I d…

"It's a problem 99.9% of people don't have now, but could have at any time."

You, sir, have aptly described the difference between vitamins and painkillers. Tylenol (one painkiller) is bigger than the entire vitamin industry. The whole industry.

That aside, in the "vitamin" world, I think success is based on how likely you are to have that problem. Everyone knows someone who's gotten in a car wreck. Everyone knows someone who has had a hard drive crash. How many people have had Flickr accidentally wipe their photos? If you're selling risk mitigation, it's gotta be pretty risky.

Post reply on HN