Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary • Hacker News Board

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#61

Post by randomdrake » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:25 PM UTC

For those who aren't familiar with Aesop Rock, I'd invite you to give him a listen sometime. His earlier albums, in particular, have been very influential to me in many ways. Both in my artistic and professional careers.

From comments on the conditions of the working man and the condition of feeling trapped in a "j-o-b"[1]:

   "Now we the American working population
   Hate the fact that eight hours a day
   Is wasted on chasing the dream of someone that isn't us
   And we may not hate our jobs
   But we hate jobs in general
   That don't have to do with fighting our own causes
   We the American working population
   Hate the nine-to-five day-in day-out
   When we'd rather be supporting ourselves
   By being paid to perfect the pastimes
   That we have harbored based solely on the fact
   That it makes us smile if it sounds dope"

To storytelling masterpieces regarding living and dreaming[2]:

   "Look, I've never had a dream in my life
   Because a dream is what you wanna do, but still haven't pursued
   I knew what I wanted and did it till it was done
   So I've been the dream that I wanted to be since day one!"

Aesop Rock takes language and linguistics to entirely different levels than one might expect from the single genre that is hip-hop. He even challenges himself and the listeners, playing fantastic word games, for instance re-using the letters L, S, and D in odd and rhythmical ways after a mention[3]:

   "Lazy summer days
   Like some decrepit landshark dumb luck squad dog lurks sicker deluded
   Last sturdy domino lean's secluded
   Don't let stupid delusions lesson super-duty labor students
   Dragnet lifer solutions
   Daddy loved sloppy dimensions like son-daughter links
   Such determinated lepers, successfully disheveled
   Little soliders developed like serpents despite life sentence ducking
   Lemmings
   Some don't like sobriety's dirty lenses
   Some do"

And then there are just incredible gems that stick with you like[4]:

   "I don't flick neeedles like my sick friend
   I don't march like Beetle Bailey through a quick trend
   I don't frequent church's steeples on my weekend
   And I don't comment if you formulate a weak Zen"

There's a lot to explore from Aesop Rock. Should you find this type of hip-hop interesting, a decent place to start is with the label you can find these songs on, Definitive Jux[5]. Incredible talent has been on and off that label over the years. So much good stuff.

[1] - "9-5ers Anthem" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-9-5ers-anthem-lyrics

[2] - "No Regrets" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-no-regrets-lyrics

[3] - "The Greatest Pac-Man Victory in History" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-the-greatest-pac-man-victory...

[4] - "Save Yourself" - http://rapgenius.com/Aesop-rock-save-yourself-lyrics

[5] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitive_Jux

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#62

Post by antocv » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:26 PM UTC

sarreph wrote: post #54

We might all be self-confessed hackers , but we'll never explicitly confess our adoration for the gloriousness of the genre that is gangster rap .

What do you mean never explicitly confess? The fuck?

Gangster rap is awesome as well as most of hip hop. But as the chart shows CunninLynguists rules all

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#63

Post by rmk2 » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

S_A_P wrote: post #60

I think the only problem I see is that some rap groups are listed as rappers. For instance beastie boys, de la soul and wu tang are listed. So there is some collective vocabulary being compared to single rappers. That said this is cool and pretty telling. From what I could see it is probably loosely couple to the intelligence of the rappers listed. I will echo the sentiments about DMX here. Looks like some shock jock…

> "Wu-Tang Clan at #6 is fucking impressive given that 10 members, with vastly different styles, are equally contributing lyrics. Add the fact that GZA, Ghostface, Raekwon, and Method Man's solo works are also in the top 20 – notably, GZA at #2. Perhaps their countless hours of studio time together (and RZA’s mentorship) exposed each rapper’s vocabulary to one another."

At least in the case of the Wu-Tang Clan, this seems to be done on purpose and suggests that there is a strong correspondence between the individual members' repertoire on one hand and the group's vocabulary as a whole, with a presumed exchange in both direction (i.e. both as a deductive and an inductive process).

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#64

Post by rquantz » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

Crito wrote: post #55

Aardwolf wrote: post #24

> Shakespeare’s vocabulary: across his entire corpus, he uses 28,829 words, suggesting he knew over 100,000 words Why does that suggest he knew over 100k words? Maybe it means he knew 28,829 and used all of them? Would he really know over 70,000 words he never used in his works? What would those 70,000 words be? Probably very obscure ones. How can you know that many obscure ones?

I'm curious if words that Shakespeare invented count. There are many words that we see first used by Shakespeare, though some of them were probably words invented during his time by others with him merely being the first to record (in documents that survived until today).

The latter is probably more the case. The OED, for instance, has had a bias in favor of using Shakespeare as a word's origin since that dictionary's first edition. The number of words attributed to Shakespeare in the OED has dwindled over time.

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#65

Post by jemfinch » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:28 PM UTC

1ris wrote: post #25

Shouldn't that be adjusted to the size of the text corpus?

The text corpus was normalized to the first 35k words for each rapper.

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#66

Post by coherentpony » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:32 PM UTC

benihana wrote: post #12

I'd really like to see this broken down by established vocabulary and made up vocabulary. I think that would really start to show who were the best lyricists on both ends. Rappers with a lot of made up words might be on the far left, and rappers with a lot of unique words that aren't made up would be on the far right. Both sides of the scale would show rapping talent on different dimensions. Influential rappers like…

>Rappers with a lot of made up words might be on the far left

It's interesting that you think that. I'd recommend you look at this: http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.ht...

At what point do 'made up' words become 'established'. After they've been published? If so, every made up word in a song should be considered 'established'.

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#67

Post by coherentpony » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

Aardwolf wrote: post #24

> Shakespeare’s vocabulary: across his entire corpus, he uses 28,829 words, suggesting he knew over 100,000 words Why does that suggest he knew over 100k words? Maybe it means he knew 28,829 and used all of them? Would he really know over 70,000 words he never used in his works? What would those 70,000 words be? Probably very obscure ones. How can you know that many obscure ones?

Again, I'd like to point out that Shakespeare also made up words: http://www.shakespeare-online.com/biography/wordsinvented.ht...

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#68

Post by bretthopper » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:34 PM UTC

Looked for Canibus near the top and wasn't surprised to find him 4th. If anyone hasn't heard of him, highly suggest listening to his older stuff such as his first Can-I-Bus, 2000 BC and Mic Club.

He raps about science and space all the time which is cool.

Here's an example of his ridiculous lyrics: http://rapgenius.com/Canibus-poet-laureate-infinity-lyrics

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#69

Post by esperluette » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:35 PM UTC

benihana wrote: post #12

I'd really like to see this broken down by established vocabulary and made up vocabulary. I think that would really start to show who were the best lyricists on both ends. Rappers with a lot of made up words might be on the far left, and rappers with a lot of unique words that aren't made up would be on the far right. Both sides of the scale would show rapping talent on different dimensions. Influential rappers like…

EVERY word is a "made-up word". Some words were just made up longer ago than others. If you held everyone to this criteria you would severely impoverish language.

Re: Rappers, Sorted by Size of Vocabulary

#70

Post by leorocky » Sun, May 04, 2014, 5:36 PM UTC

randomdrake wrote: post #61

For those who aren't familiar with Aesop Rock, I'd invite you to give him a listen sometime. His earlier albums, in particular, have been very influential to me in many ways. Both in my artistic and professional careers. From comments on the conditions of the working man and the condition of feeling trapped in a "j-o-b"[1]: "Now we the American working population Hate the fact that eight hours a day Is wasted on chas…

I don't know man, I listened to a couple of the tracks and he definitely has lyrical skills, and I like some of the tracks, but the quotes you selected aren't very good at all, at best obvious topics with all the insight of a million college freshmen. Having said that I like "None Shall Pass" that has a really great sound.

To be entirely honest, I love rap, but not for any insight rappers have in world affairs, but for their lyrical ability. Some are very good at providing unique ways to describe their own insights about their lives but when someone starts rapping about world problems I just want to shut my brain off because it's usually pretty banal. Then with my brain off I can still at least enjoy the way the rap sounds.