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I’m a Man and I Write Code

wewritecode.com

61–66 of 66 posts

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#61

>My wife is a nurse. A female dominated field. I also own a construction company. A male dominated field. In neither field would you see a company or an organization suggest hiring one gender over the other to satisfy a ratio. The only difference between men and women is their physical power. Yes, construction company is a male dominated field, because men are more suitable for doing that kind of job because of their…

On the other hand.. in computer science, there is no difference between men and women, everything runs on brain power. So I find it very weird that there is very few women in computer science.

It's sexism. People are being judged and losing opertunities based on their gender, which as you point out, is irrelevant.

Here's a mind blowing factoid: The lack of women in tech is strong evidence that tech is not a meritocracy.

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#62
post #7

There are several definitions of sexism, one is essentially "taking someone's sex or gender into account when making a decision". This appears to be the definition the author is using by calling quotas "sexist". It's a very simple, easy to understand, easy to identify definition. It also means that in many cases (e.g. choosing who shoul speak at a tech conference), men can be the victims of sexism. There's another de…

> This definition is harder for some people to accept because it means that you need to look at yourself and think about what power imbalances you might be benefiting from, and it means you can't just do s/female/male/g and make it just as sexist. I think it's more Darwinian than that. No one comes to the realization one day that they benefit from institutional power dynamics and then sets out to change the system to…

Removing an unfair advantage might make it harder/less easier for men. But that's OK.

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#63
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll keep going round and round until it gets fixed...

okay https://twitter.com/shanley/status/460566412226883584

Oh, I thought I recognized the site, you were one of the guests on Hanselminutes. Kudos on the project, and you can write me down as another who would like to see an RSS/Atom feed :)

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you missed the point. the problem is more like this: 1. Find the 30 best speakers that are available and can speak to a relevant/interesting topic to your event. 2. How many of them are men? How many are women? 3. If there are less than 15 women then it means that whatever metric you used to pick "best" didn't select a 1:1 ratio. Now you have to decide which do you consider more important, your "best" metric or 1:1 g…

3a. If there are less than 15 women then it means that whatever metric you used to pick "best" may have an unconscious or unexamined bias. Now you have to decide which do you consider more important, sticking with your "best" metric or trying to find and eliminate that bias? 4a. If sticking with your "best" metric is more important, then you are now deliberately excluding female candidates for reasons that are fundam…

3a doesn't make sense because the male to female ratio in the industry is not 1:1.

Because 3a doesn't make sense, 4a doesn't make sense.

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#65
post #44
post #7

There are several definitions of sexism, one is essentially "taking someone's sex or gender into account when making a decision". This appears to be the definition the author is using by calling quotas "sexist". It's a very simple, easy to understand, easy to identify definition. It also means that in many cases (e.g. choosing who shoul speak at a tech conference), men can be the victims of sexism. There's another de…

In general I agree with what you're saying and I think that your second definition of sexism is very insightful and something everybody should consider and think about (even if they ultimately find they cannot support this definition). However, I would like to point out that whether being "male" makes you play life on easier difficulty than "female" depends to a large extent to how you weight different outcomes of th…

That's a very important distinction that the "easy-mode" metaphors don't really take into account. A good word for it is "intersectionality" (though please note that many people will define intersectionality as only applying to marginalized groups): it's the various ways all of one's "labels" (gender, class, ethnicity, race, etc) interact, and it's something to keep in mind while having these discussions.

The reason is that there isn't one axis along which we can measure "more" or "less" oppressed or disenfranchised. Men tend to lose custody battles more frequently, for instance.

That said, you can still look at a group of people and say something along the lines of "in such-and-such context, members of the first group tend to be more successful at this goal than members of a second group". Phrasing it this way, I think, tends to deflect the "us-vs-them" or "men-vs-women" mentality that crops up fairly often in these discussions (especially when they take place online, where anonymity and lack of non-textual clues make it more difficult to have a civil conversation).

The point of all this is this: if you are a man, you are more likely to kill yourself or be homeless, and that is a HUGE PROBLEM. If you are a black man, by some accounting, you are more likely to be raped than a white woman (because black men are disproportionately sent to prison), and that is a HUGE PROBLEM. But neither of these problems make the discrimination faced by women in the STEM fields less of a problem, it just means that we have many huge problems on our hands.

When you are a member of group A, and group A tends to be more successful than group B (so, male programmers as group A and female programmers as group B), I think it is your obligation to ask _why_ there is this statistical skew, and if the answer is "systematic discrimination due to power imbalance", work to correct it, irrespective of how your group fares in other such comparisons. That doesn't mean that your group faring poorly in these comparisons is not unfair, because it totally is. It just means that there is a complex web of privileges* and disadvantages that we _all_ need to help untangle.

(*You didn't think I was going to get through five paragraphs about identity politics without whipping out the P-word, did you?)

Re: I’m a Man and I Write Code

#66
post #33

I just want to throw my two cents in as a (very) young woman in college that aspires to become a Software Engineer. I'm very glad that groups like PyLadies and Women Who Code exist. Unfortunately I'm pretty terrified of meeting men that are significantly more experienced than myself in the industry when it comes to software. I'm terrified of coming off as clueless or air headed. On top of that, the men I have met in…

> Unfortunately I'm pretty terrified of meeting men that are significantly more experienced than myself in the industry when it comes to software. I'm terrified of coming off as clueless or air headed.

Don't worry about that. Making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn. Making a mistake in front of someone or even an entire lecture hall is nothing. They probably won't even remember it. But you will, because it was your mistake and you won't ever make it again.

Leaving wrong ideas in your head instead of saying them and letting someone correct you is how people become clueless. Opening your mouth more will cause you to be wrong less.

> On top of that, the men I have met in the industry are extremely intimidating.

This industry is full of jerks. Defy them by succeeding.

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