Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

blogmaverick.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 90 posts

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#61

Post by mikeryan »

solutionyogi wrote: post #56
mikeryan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want people spending their money as they see fit, see I'm not a politician so I can say this. This why I don't see libertarianism (or even conservatism) working in general. There are vast swathes of americans who given more money would spend it irresponsibly - and what do you do then when someone spends their limited income on new truck nuts instead of health insurance?

Great. Please allow me to control your bank account so that I can dictate how much you spend on your car, on your health insurance, on your vacation, on your wedding, on your kids, on your personal growth, on your food... each and everything which affects you. Are you okie? I hear a 'no'. Then why do you think you want government to control how others spend their money? Do you really think someone else knows better t…

"Do you really think someone else knows better than you what to do you with your own hard earned money?"

You're not answering my question. I trust myself, heck you seem smart enough, I even trust you. I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally.

You can not call America a libertarian country and wave it like an example. Its far from it and thankfully so. The most economic success this country has seen in the last 25 years was the eight were it was run by democratic leader (you know the tax more spend more people).

Likewise India's success in the last 25 years is great, but its a bit hard to show that as an example when it houses 1/3 of the worlds poor and 42% live beneath the international poverty line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#62

Post by solutionyogi »

321abc wrote: post #54
solutionyogi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is of the government. Government decided to intervene and give those billions to the corporations. If government and bureaucrats didn't have the power to give away taxpayer's money, we won't have this problem. And that's why we libertarians talk about 'limited government.' Remember, 'Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

That might be a half-respectable position, if libertarians were against all concentrations of power. But they're not. They're more than happy to give corporations and individuals all the power their money can buy them. Also, libertarians have plenty of scorn for what the government does wrong, but little respect for what it does right. The EPA, before the anti-EPA right wing nuts of the bush administration took it ov…

Could you give me an example where FDA has done a good job? Let me give you some examples of where they have fucked up.

* Seven thousand people die every year because the FDA hasn't approved the Ambu CardioPump, a CPR device that is available in just about every other industrialized country.

* Nine hundred people die every year because the FDA hasn't approved the OmniCarbon heart valve, which also is in use just about everywhere else.

* From November 1988 to May 1992, about 3,500 kidney cancer patients died waiting for the FDA to approve the drug Interleukin-2, which was already available in France, Denmark, and seven other European countries.

* In 1988 alone, between 7,500 and 15,000 people died from gastric ulcers caused by aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, waiting for the FDA to approve misoprostol, which was already available in 43 countries.

* And 22,000 people died between 1985 and late 1987 waiting for streptokinase, the first drug that could be intravenously administered to reopen the blocked coronary arteries of heart-attack victims.

I have a friend who does medical research and to quote him:

//// As a professional in the medical device field, I can bear witness to many better reasons.

1. Delay of life saving technologies. I've had a product which has already saved lives in clinical trials waiting for FDA approval for 10 years!!! How many have died unnecessarily in that time? Nobody risks their job in FDA by saying "no", only "yes" The review boards are a joke. They consist mainly of your potential competitors!

2. Needless paperwork. At least half of my company's expenses are directly related to useless compliance with FDA paperwork. The joke here is that it doesn't have ANY connection to REAL patient safety, just the proper invocation of holy words on endless reports and forms. Maybe the FDA is really a secret cabal? Just kidding...

3. Chilling effect on new products and technologies. Want to make venture capital run away and hide? Say "subject to FDA approval" ///

Tell me again how is FDA useful?

Also, why do you think libertarians will wreck havoc on education? Could you explain me with example of how they will wreck havoc? AFAIK, libertarian recommends a school voucher system which will ensure that all kids get education and the free market forces ensure that they get best education possible.

The libertarianism doesn't advocate concentration of power, it actually promotes liberty for everyone involved.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#63

Post by solutionyogi »

mikeryan wrote: post #61
solutionyogi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Please allow me to control your bank account so that I can dictate how much you spend on your car, on your health insurance, on your vacation, on your wedding, on your kids, on your personal growth, on your food... each and everything which affects you. Are you okie? I hear a 'no'. Then why do you think you want government to control how others spend their money? Do you really think someone else knows better t…

"Do you really think someone else knows better than you what to do you with your own hard earned money?" You're not answering my question. I trust myself, heck you seem smart enough, I even trust you. I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally. You can not call America a libertarian country and wave it like an examp…

India became independent from British rule in 1947. It opened up economy in 1991. India has progressed more in last 18 years (from 1991 to 2009) than it did in 44 years (1947 to 1991). You can confirm this with any Indian who is more than 30 years old. [Compared this to US which has been independent since 1788, more than 200 years]

I hope you would agree that poverty can not be eliminated overnight. I am thrilled that India is making progress and I can assure that over the next 50 years, India will also join the rank of developed nations if they continue to adopt libertarian policies.

Anyway, coming back to your argument that you don't think others are smart enough to know how to spend their money. Just because percentage of the population is not smart enough, do you think I should suffer (by paying higher taxes) because of that?

Also, let's for a moment say that government should decide my health care. What's next? They will tell me what to eat as well. Where do you draw the line?

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#64

Post by mikeryan »

solutionyogi wrote: post #63
mikeryan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you really think someone else knows better than you what to do you with your own hard earned money?" You're not answering my question. I trust myself, heck you seem smart enough, I even trust you. I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally. You can not call America a libertarian country and wave it like an examp…

India became independent from British rule in 1947. It opened up economy in 1991. India has progressed more in last 18 years (from 1991 to 2009) than it did in 44 years (1947 to 1991). You can confirm this with any Indian who is more than 30 years old. [Compared this to US which has been independent since 1788, more than 200 years] I hope you would agree that poverty can not be eliminated overnight. I am thrilled tha…

Hmm... from 1991 to 2009 we've had 2 web bubbles. Maybe that had something to do with it?

But you're still ignoring the core issue.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#65

Post by anamax »

mikeryan wrote: post #61
solutionyogi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Please allow me to control your bank account so that I can dictate how much you spend on your car, on your health insurance, on your vacation, on your wedding, on your kids, on your personal growth, on your food... each and everything which affects you. Are you okie? I hear a 'no'. Then why do you think you want government to control how others spend their money? Do you really think someone else knows better t…

"Do you really think someone else knows better than you what to do you with your own hard earned money?" You're not answering my question. I trust myself, heck you seem smart enough, I even trust you. I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally. You can not call America a libertarian country and wave it like an examp…

> I don't trust large sections of my country and you don't have a solution for dealing with the people who decide to spend their money irrationally.

I've got news for you. I don't trust YOU to decide how to spend their money or my money.

Yes, people do dumb things with their money. However, they do dumber things with other people's money. And, since the potential damange is greater in the latter case than in the former, that's double-plus ungood.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#66

Post by zackattack »

I would also like to point out that Cuban has incentives to have his fan base think of him as patriotic: he wants patriotic people to consume his NBA entertainment and think well of him.

Just because someone posts something on their blog, does not mean it is what they truly believe. It is only what they want to appear on their blog.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#67

Post by anamax »

321abc wrote: post #28

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." -- Samuel Johnson "The most patriotic thing you can do is get rich." -- Mark Cuban Sounds about right.

You're mis-reading Johnson. He's not saying that patriotisim is bad - the word "last" is important.

Asimov's "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent." has a similar trap for those who don't read critically.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#68

Post by solutionyogi »

mikeryan wrote: post #64
solutionyogi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India became independent from British rule in 1947. It opened up economy in 1991. India has progressed more in last 18 years (from 1991 to 2009) than it did in 44 years (1947 to 1991). You can confirm this with any Indian who is more than 30 years old. [Compared this to US which has been independent since 1788, more than 200 years] I hope you would agree that poverty can not be eliminated overnight. I am thrilled tha…

Hmm... from 1991 to 2009 we've had 2 web bubbles. Maybe that had something to do with it? But you're still ignoring the core issue.

What those two bubbles have to do with India's progress?

Also, I am not ignoring core issue. Your solution is that someone in Washington DC should decide how to spend money and solve problems for people living in a country as big as America and I am suggesting that we treat people like adult and let them take care of themselves and minimize the role of government in our lives.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#69

Post by nazgulnarsil »

Locke1689 wrote: post #39
jonallanharper wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only "infinitely more important" in your false, theoretical reality. Give me a Henry Ford or a porn producer any day over Mother Teresa. It speaks volumes that you hold a person that "never held a paid job in her life" in higher esteem than an individual that actually created wealth. The guy who founded girls gone wild produced far more of what people want than your useless social engineers.

Of course, this logic could also be applied to war profiteering. The problem is that economics does not exist in an ideal world with no socio-moral ramifications.

a dollar made at the end of a gun and a dollar made because the purchase was a pareto improvement aren't the same thing. that you could equate the two means that you equate logos and pathos.

Re: Mark Cuban: The most patriotic thing you can do is "get rich"

#70

Post by Locke1689 »

nazgulnarsil wrote: post #69
Locke1689 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, this logic could also be applied to war profiteering. The problem is that economics does not exist in an ideal world with no socio-moral ramifications.

a dollar made at the end of a gun and a dollar made because the purchase was a pareto improvement aren't the same thing. that you could equate the two means that you equate logos and pathos.

Actually, he was making the comparison. Consider, someone who sells weapons is doing exactly what he is talking about: selling people what they want. Economically, this can generally be considered a decent position. Unfortunately, its morally a bad one. My point was that is essential to consider both.

Just because someone produces a product that serves a client base and produces a profit doesn't excuse moral issues. Similarly, just because Mother Theresa was not making a profit does not mean that she did not produce a net good. The two are apples and oranges but must be used in conjunction, not exclusion.

Post reply on HN